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Post by aaronstack on Jul 15, 2024 3:40:59 GMT -5
Gene Colan body with John Byrne head?
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Post by Batflunkie on Jul 15, 2024 9:26:37 GMT -5
Gene Colan body with John Byrne head? Yeah, it's some weird mish-mash to be sure |
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Post by commond on Aug 5, 2024 16:21:26 GMT -5
Interesting that the Fantastic Four were originally referred to as "fantasy characters."  |
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Post by Batflunkie on Aug 5, 2024 18:22:13 GMT -5
Interesting that the Fantastic Four were originally referred to as "fantasy characters." You know, a Fantastic Four comic set in the world of Star Wars, Flash Gordon, or John Carter wouldn't be a half bad idea... |
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Post by driver1980 on Aug 6, 2024 4:38:49 GMT -5
Interesting that the Fantastic Four were originally referred to as "fantasy characters." I have seen both Doctor Who and Frankenstein described as fantasy. |
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Post by kirby101 on Aug 6, 2024 7:50:35 GMT -5
Interesting that the Fantastic Four were originally referred to as "fantasy characters." You mean they might not have been all on board that it was a straight superhero team based on the Justice League? Sorry, I just couldn't help myself. 
(This post was written with tongue firmly in cheek. Meant for giggles)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2024 8:13:20 GMT -5
It was always interesting to me that the FF did not start off as costumed heroes even though they got their powers right away.
Do we know if the plan was always to give them the superhero look they eventually received in #3, or was that more of an "on the fly" creative decision to shift gears?
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Post by kirby101 on Aug 6, 2024 9:29:09 GMT -5
It is obvious that the first issue of the FF was put together from an already done Monster book. It makes sense when they decided to do a team book (which despite the urban legend, was most likely based on Kirby's challengers) that they used something they had and adapted it. I think the first 3 issues were all from Monster stories they already had in the pipeline. The Skrull and the Mastermind, with it's monster fight, read much like the "Tales" books they were doing. It's not until #4 and especially #5 that it started to feel more like Super Heroes. That said, the FF were always more Science Adventurers than superheroes.
They did all these on the fly. They put out these books, hoping they would sell, there was no long term plan for the book or characters. You can tell from all these books that in the first year, they slowly get a feel for who the characters are and what direction they want to take. None of the early Marvel heroes were fully formed with the first issue. Some, like Thor, took a couple of years.
Today writers start a book with a multipart story and long term arc already worked out. That is not how these books were done. They were trying to get each month's issue to the newsstands not knowing if they will continue.
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Post by jester on Aug 6, 2024 9:49:05 GMT -5
Came across this in a book about the history of the American comic book industry I'm currently reading. In the last issue of The Haunt of Fear prior to EC cancelling their horror titles, the lead story is titled "The Prude" and it's about a campaigner for public decency named Warren Forbisher (flip those initials) whose moralistic front is a hypocritical facade to conceal his own dark secret. Pretty powerful statement in light of what was going on at the time.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2024 9:50:46 GMT -5
kirby101 Nothing is ever “obvious” to me lol, but yeah, I can see the connection back to the era it was emerging from. More just wondering if it was specifically called out in an interview or something since they changed directions pretty quickly with the full on superhero look (like did they look at JLA and say let’s follow). I know it wasn’t remotely like the process in more modern times of course.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Aug 6, 2024 10:10:43 GMT -5
It is obvious that the first issue of the FF was put together from an already done Monster book. It makes sense when they decided to do a team book (which despite the urban legend, was most likely based on Kirby's challengers) that they used something they had and adapted it. I think the first 3 issues were all from Monster stories they already had in the pipeline. The Skrull and the Mastermind, with it's monster fight, read much like the "Tales" books they were doing. It's not until #4 and especially #5 that it started to feel more like Super Heroes. That said, the FF were always more Science Adventurers than superheroes. They did all these on the fly. They put out these books, hoping they would sell, there was no long term plan for the book or characters. You can tell from all these books that in the first year, they slowly get a feel for who the characters are and what direction they want to take. None of the early Marvel heroes were fully formed with the first issue. Some, like Thor, took a couple of years. Today writers start a book with a multipart story and long term arc already worked out. That is not how these books were done. They were trying to get each month's issue to the newsstands not knowing if they will continue. The second half of FF #1 was very clearly an adapted monster story. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2024 10:18:09 GMT -5
I found some additional potential info on my question, will post later when I’m back home.
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Post by kirby101 on Aug 6, 2024 10:24:31 GMT -5
kirby101 Nothing is ever “obvious” to me lol, but yeah, I can see the connection back to the era it was emerging from. More just wondering if it was specifically called out in an interview or something since they changed directions pretty quickly with the full on superhero look (like did they look at JLA and say let’s follow). I know it wasn’t remotely like the process in more modern times of course. Well Goodman changed directions pretty quickly all the time. Usually following a trend. Look at how when Kirby and Ditko came on, within a few months, they cancelled books and replaced them with the monster "Tales" books. Like I said, the first FF was hashed together to put out a team book. The Skrull 2nd issue looks to me like another repurposed scifi story they had. The ending would work if it was one of the scientist heroes they often had in those stories. By the 3rd issue they get costumes and are clearly going the superhero route. So "on the fly" seems the most likely. With no evidence to a well thought out plan. (I won't even give the "Joan told Stan to try something bold" story the least bit of credence. Like all the stories in Origins book, it is confirmed total BS)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2024 10:54:02 GMT -5
So this is from the Tom Brevoort site, and it's clearly labeled as conjecture, so more just another interesting tidbit to consider. I'm not looking to prove a point of course, and kirby101 , your general overview of the creative process back then aligns with my understanding so not saying your response is not correct nor do I think this conjecture refutes it (but might get at some further dynamics). I just find the topic interesting and thought I'd dig a little deeper. "Greg Theakston has theorized that, on the initial issues, publisher Martin Goodman was fearful of jeopardizing his relationship with Independent News, his distributor, which was owned by DC/National Comics, by stepping into their home territory and publishing an outright super hero title. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but certainly the first two issues of FANTASTIC FOUR seem to work awfully hard on their covers to conceal what sort of a magazine you’re going to be getting. With this third issue, either Goodman or Lee decided to throw caution to the wind–not only giving the FF full-on costumes but touting that fact in huge blurbs on the cover. The printed cover screams at the top of its lungs that this is a super hero comic book." tombrevoort.com/2019/02/17/lee-kirby-fantastic-four-3/ |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2024 11:01:45 GMT -5
I'm sure others here have seen this before, but I hadn't, an unused cover for FF #3. The final published is still the winner for me, but I kind of like this, and hate to admit it, I kind of like Johnny's head not being on fire (and the black gloves for some reason) even though I'm not sure that would make sense and diverges from the homage to the original Torch.  |
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