|
|
Post by tarkintino on Jan 30, 2022 9:20:42 GMT -5
I saw some interview with him that said he actually used action figures, for poses, aside from those he swiped from Perez, Kirby, Byrne, Brent Anderson, etc. That is just sad.  |
|
|
|
Post by Batflunkie on Jan 30, 2022 10:52:50 GMT -5
Picasso or Dali, take your pick Both were excellent draftmen. Leifeld not fit to sharpen their pencil. That was more of a comment on the fact that Liefeld's style being abstract and formless sometimes and not a slam against Picasso or Dali |
|
|
|
Post by arfetto on Jan 30, 2022 11:05:48 GMT -5
I have not gone through this whole thread yet, and I know it is more of an ironic appreciation thread than anything, but, hm, how to put it...seeing this image interested me so I wanted to ramble. I just noticed that my complaint with Liefelds art is that all the characters always seem to be standing at attention. No nuance or relaxed type posture.  I am probably a bit younger than most of the posters on this forum, so my idea of "classic comics" includes a lot of '90s stuff for me personally. Rob Liefeld drawn stories are generally not a part of that (though I have my fair share of Liefeld books), but being young when he was "all the rage" haha, I do think I have very slight insight into his popularity (though I am sure it has been more eloquently written about online by others of my age). I remember when I was young, seeing his art for the first time, I didn't think in terms of "this is good" or "this is bad". I thought more like "this stands out" (well, until there were so many Liefeld style imitations it no longer did). And I felt some weird resonation with his style that made me as a kid attempt to draw for awhile haha. Not necessarily because of Liefeld alone (I have a huge list of '90s artists that are my favorites and Liefeld is not on it).
So, he was never one of my favorite artists, but I admit that when I attempted to draw superheroes I could not help but want to add those little over-rendered dash lines he'd cover over everyone like a compulsion haha (well, of course artists like Portacio, Medina, and Lee also inspired me to do this stuff). I guess this is a sort of backhanded compliment to Liefeld that his artwork inspired small kids to say "Hey maybe I can do that too" haha, but I mean it more like "this made me excited to attempt drawing superheroes" (and yes, perhaps the "I might be able to do that" plays into it a bit haha) for some reason I can't pin down. I can't say I had good taste as a kid (and I still don't haha), but just explaining that there might be some weird primal gravitation youngsters in the '90s had with his style - and for me superhero action figures also played a part in that as well (this was the time when Toybiz was releasing every "appeared for a few panels" mutant in action figure form haha), so I can see how Liefeld was thinking in terms of "action figures" for his designs haha. |
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jan 30, 2022 11:56:46 GMT -5
I think part of the appeal for Liefeld, at the period, was that there was an enthusiasm to his work and it was big and loud. That has always had a certain appeal in comics. His books had a lot of action scenes, which makes them more exciting. Also, his style could be imitated, since he was not doing much to adhere to real anatomy. A lot of the panels he was caught swiping came from guys like Kirby, Perez and Byrne and were dynamic shots. He also mixed in a variety of characters. All of that has an appeal to a certain audience.
I liked his stuff when I saw Hawk & Dove; but, it turned out that Karl Kesel was cleaning up his pencils, quite a bit, in the inking stage. He fixed the anatomy and gave it more weight.
You can't fault the guy for selling, as there was an audience for it. My issues with him, at the time of Image's launch, had more to do with the snotty attitude that he had towards previous collaborators, especially Louise Simonson. He acted like she had nothing to do with the success of New Mutants/X-Force and that she held him back. He and Eric Larson were the two biggest angry voices about "being held back" at Marvel, though McFarlane had similar complaints, though his seemed to be more about the business end than creative. They took shots at writers and basically came off sounding like punks. I was old enough that it sounded to me like a bunch of whiny teenagers who needed some discipline, which was kind of born out by there erratic (to put it kindly) schedule for producing the books they were soliciting. McFarlane settled down, especially after he started counting his money. Larson at least was generally able to maintain a fairly consistent schedule. Savage Dragon wasn't my cup of tea; but, it wasn't a horrible mess, like some books at the Big Two, at the time. He got too busy to keep putting his foot in his mouth. Rob did, too, though not exactly in the same manner and he got himself in hot water, with his partners, eventually and got the boot/quit (he said/she said).
I've seen some samples of later work and he seemed to have matured in his approach to his work and actually picked up some anatomy. I saw a couple of pieces that were really good, though did not see entire stories. In later interviews he sounded like he had grown up a bit (parenthood probably helped).
So, yeah, young Rob makes a pretty easy punching bag; but, it was also a spectacularly bizarre punching bag, in terms of some of the images he produced. I think these days, it's more in a spirit of fun, compared to real hate, in the 90s (I'll confess to a bit of guilt, there) and even he has poked fun at his own design aesthetics.
|
|
|
|
Post by kirby101 on Jan 30, 2022 12:09:58 GMT -5
People talk about Kirby needing a scripter, but that early Image stuff, whew!
|
|
|
|
Post by arfetto on Jan 30, 2022 12:40:51 GMT -5
Larson at least was generally able to maintain a fairly consistent schedule. Savage Dragon wasn't my cup of tea; but, it wasn't a horrible mess, like some books at the Big Two, at the time. Larsen was one of my favorites of the Image artists when I was young. I know this is a Liefeld "Appreciation Society" thread rather than a Larsen one haha, but this feels the best place to post this. Savage Dragon was, for me, the ideal '90s Image comic: Explosive spectacle (but put out in a timely manner). I collected maybe the first 130 or so issues of Savage Dragon, but eventually I stopped buying it. I picked up a recent issue and did not enjoy it much. Larsen's current style does not appeal much to me. But the "classic" (haha) issues were my favorite form of "pizza schlock" (to borrow a phrase from filmmaker Michele Soavi), fun (your mileage may vary on that one) blockbuster action with twists and turns, big splash pages and reveals, all that stuff done through a '90s lens.
Haha
|
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jan 30, 2022 13:01:56 GMT -5
I was never a fan of Larson's art and really hated his Doom Patrol stuff, especially after Steve Lightle. I quit the book because his art was so painful to my eyes. i sampled the early issues of Image, including Savage Dragon; but it did nothing for me. Byrne was an obvious influence on him, but he didn't have a Terry Austin refining things. never cared much for his writing. It wasn't bad; but, it wasn't anything that made me want to stay with the series. As it was, my tastes were moving more into non-superhero works, with a lot more indie material. The 90s gave me plenty of reasons to drop most superhero comics, unless there was something unique about it, like Starman, or a sense of fun. I did respect the fact that Larson, for the most part, wasn't doing a total imitation of what he had done at Marvel and was actually fairly professional in getting his books out.
The one early Image book I stayed with, for more than a handful of issues, was The Maxx and that was because William Messner Loebs and Sam Keith were a great team and I loved Epicurus the Sage. I came close to dropping Maxx, but, stuck it out as it started gaining a bit of clarity that kept me interested. Those early issues are intriguing, but bizarre enough to make your head hurt that it did take a commitment, if you were more interested in the story than Keith's stylistic art (which I did like). Other than that, the only Image book I was getting was Shaman's Tears and even that I didn't think was Mike Grell's best work. I liked elements; but, good portions of it felt like he was trying to please a different audience, rather than produce the stories he wanted to tell. I actually liked Bar Sinister (Valiant/Windjammer) better, in terms of story.
|
|
|
|
Post by Batflunkie on Jan 30, 2022 15:08:28 GMT -5
The one early Image book I stayed with, for more than a handful of issues, was The Maxx and that was because William Messner Loebs and Sam Keith were a great team and I loved Epicurus the Sage. I came close to dropping Maxx, but, stuck it out as it started gaining a bit of clarity that kept me interested. Those early issues are intriguing, but bizarre enough to make your head hurt that it did take a commitment, if you were more interested in the story than Keith's stylistic art (which I did like). I remember watching a VHS copy with some of the Maxx MTV show on it as a kid and falling in love with it. I love how the cartoon kept the random stylistic shifts from the comic
I also liked how it started off as a run-of-the-mill action title from the 90's and slowly turned into something more poignant and grandiose
|
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Jan 30, 2022 15:39:51 GMT -5
Erik Larsens Savage dragon is the only title I still collect. I have the entire 261 issue run. ( 2 from the pandemic year in TPB). I will admit that the last few years aren’t as good but it’s unpredictable as a book. I like that.
|
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Jan 30, 2022 16:08:14 GMT -5
The one early Image book I stayed with, for more than a handful of issues, was The Maxx and that was because William Messner Loebs and Sam Keith were a great team and I loved Epicurus the Sage. I came close to dropping Maxx, but, stuck it out as it started gaining a bit of clarity that kept me interested. Those early issues are intriguing, but bizarre enough to make your head hurt that it did take a commitment, if you were more interested in the story than Keith's stylistic art (which I did like). I remember watching a VHS copy with some of the Maxx MTV show on it as a kid and falling in love with it. I love how the cartoon kept the random stylistic shifts from the comic
I also liked how it started off as a run-of-the-mill action title from the 90's and slowly turned into something more poignant and grandiose
The cartoon was good and helped clarify the comic, since they had to simplify things a bit, for the run time. MTV had some great animation stuff, in that period. What the heck to they even prgram, these days? Have to mention, it was Larson's early work I hated; but, his art had improved by the time Savage Dragon launched. Still wasn't a fan; but, it didn't give me headaches. Wasn't a fan of the messy inking; but, that was practically everything, in the 90s. You had inkers hatching lines across everything. No wonder I turned to things like Bone, Bachhus, Hellboy and Astro City. |
|
|
|
Post by commond on Jan 30, 2022 17:37:57 GMT -5
I like how Ed Piskor and Jim Rugg champion guys like Liefeld from their youth.
|
|
|
|
Post by beyonder1984 on Feb 1, 2022 20:26:32 GMT -5
Larson's Savage Dragon was a Marvel homage. The humor, over-the-top action, and parody were in the same spirit, but it had a cool indie vibe as well.
He was a better storyteller than the other Image founders.
My classmates loved to trace Rob Liefeld's work. They had no idea his work would be mocked in the future, especially since Wizard kept promoting him. Amazing that Jim Lee is a boss at DC and so respected by the pros and viewed at a much higher level than Rob.
|
|
|
|
Post by kirby101 on Feb 1, 2022 21:36:10 GMT -5
Jim Lee is actually a very talented artist. Rob is not.
|
|
|
|
Post by Icctrombone on Feb 2, 2022 5:44:14 GMT -5
Jim Lee is actually a very talented artist. Rob is not. No doubt Lee drew some beautiful stuff. I consider Liefeld an idea man and a business man first and a draftsman second. |
|
|
|
Post by commond on Feb 2, 2022 6:00:42 GMT -5
One thing I'll say for Liefeld is that he was a hell of a lot better than his imitators.
|
|
