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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2022 7:01:18 GMT -5
I do like to tease about some of Liefeld's artistic "moments", but I actually have some positive association with that 90's period he's associated with. There was a "fun factor" again in superhero comics that had been declining throughout the 80's. The Direct Market "seriousness" and the B&W Indy speculator market boom and Crisis and all this other baggage was just killing the old "colorful characters in costumes beat each other up" simple pleasure reading.
It honestly got me back into reading comic books again after being away for a number of years, and stuff like early Deadpool was refreshing to me and a bit like if Spidey was actually fun again.
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Post by kirby101 on Feb 2, 2022 9:39:06 GMT -5
Why would anyone imitate Liefeld? Copying a guy who mainly copies other comic artists is a recipe to not have a career in comics.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2022 12:36:23 GMT -5
Why would anyone imitate Liefeld? Copying a guy who mainly copies other comic artists is a recipe to not have a career in comics. Because Liefeld and the Image boys were the hot look at the time and editors were only hiring artists who had that vibe. A career has to go through an editor who will hire you for the book. Even Herb Trimpe tried out a Liefeld style at the time. Tom Grindberg altered his style at that time to do Marvel work as well. You do what you have to do to get hired for assignements. -M
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Feb 2, 2022 13:29:08 GMT -5
I do like to tease about some of Liefeld's artistic "moments", but I actually have some positive association with that 90's period he's associated with. There was a "fun factor" again in superhero comics that had been declining throughout the 80's. The Direct Market "seriousness" and the B&W Indy speculator market boom and Crisis and all this other baggage was just killing the old "colorful characters in costumes beat each other up" simple pleasure reading. It honestly got me back into reading comic books again after being away for a number of years, and stuff like early Deadpool was refreshing to me and a bit like if Spidey was actually fun again. I started buying in the mid-90's so the "90's look" was all I knew until I discovered back issues, other than the older comics polybagged together at the drug stores. I've never really got the criticism of the 90's outside of actual depictions of bad anatomy, which yes Liefeld did at the height of his career. But I remember reading a short story of his in a Warlord issue at the end of the book. And until I read the credits I would have never know it was him, as it was nothing like his 90s style that got him work. I think he does have some talent but like anyone at the height of their popularity forced to shell out more and more content at less and less time to do so you are going to get lackadaisical work. Also Deadpool is ruined now. He actually use to be a good character. Now he is just .... ugh. Made it through 10 minutes of the first movie and walked away. He's also annoyingly obnoxious in Ultimate Spiderman animated series, a show I otherwise liked.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2022 13:40:31 GMT -5
Also Deadpool is ruined now. He actually use to be a good character. Now he is just .... ugh. Made it through 10 minutes of the first movie and walked away. He's also annoyingly obnoxious in Ultimate Spiderman animated series, a show I otherwise liked. Could not agree more.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 2, 2022 15:41:52 GMT -5
I do like to tease about some of Liefeld's artistic "moments", but I actually have some positive association with that 90's period he's associated with. There was a "fun factor" again in superhero comics that had been declining throughout the 80's. The Direct Market "seriousness" and the B&W Indy speculator market boom and Crisis and all this other baggage was just killing the old "colorful characters in costumes beat each other up" simple pleasure reading. It honestly got me back into reading comic books again after being away for a number of years, and stuff like early Deadpool was refreshing to me and a bit like if Spidey was actually fun again. I started buying in the mid-90's so the "90's look" was all I knew until I discovered back issues, other than the older comics polybagged together at the drug stores. I've never really got the criticism of the 90's outside of actual depictions of bad anatomy, which yes Liefeld did at the height of his career. But I remember reading a short story of his in a Warlord issue at the end of the book. And until I read the credits I would have never know it was him, as it was nothing like his 90s style that got him work. I think he does have some talent but like anyone at the height of their popularity forced to shell out more and more content at less and less time to do so you are going to get lackadaisical work. Also Deadpool is ruined now. He actually use to be a good character. Now he is just .... ugh. Made it through 10 minutes of the first movie and walked away. He's also annoyingly obnoxious in Ultimate Spiderman animated series, a show I otherwise liked. At DC, he was mentored, as had Larsen and McFarlane (and Silvestri). McFarlane, in one of those video pieces that Stan Lee did, in the 90s, credited Dick Giordano with working with him on his techniques and storytelling. However, his natural inclination seems to be more about design than storytelling. He designs amazing looking pages, but, they don't necessarily advance the story. Liefeld's work, at DC was cleaner and more anatomically correct, with some of that coming from inkers and editors demanding corrections. Hawk & Dove hinted at what was to come, though Karl Kesel kept Rob from his worst inclinations. At Marvel, I kind of get the impression they were left to exaggerate more and more, especially after sales proved high. At Image, no one was reining in their worst excesses; so, it became such a big factor. The 90s, in general, gets pared down to the Image stuff; because they made so much noise and the speculators snapped up every book and they fed that. Wizard cheered them on, since they were all about speculating. They jumped on Valiant's bandwagon when prices started to take off, because of Unity stirring interest in the earlier issues. You had a lot of indie work going on and some great books; Dark Horse had a wide variety of great titles. However, the Speculator Boom was such a big thing, while it was happening and it coincided with the Image guys breaking off (and probably influenced their decision) that it overwhelms everything else. DC and Marvel were feeding speculators and then here is an upstart company from some "young punk" Marvel guys who are shoveling it into their hands. It becomes easy to forget stuff like Dan Clowes, or Bone, or Waid's Flash or Starman. Having been reading comics since the dawn of the 70s, I found the 90s mainstream to be rather sparse, for how my tastes had matured, with things like Flash and Starman feeding the superhero jones and the indies feeding the desire for more complex stories and adventure fiction without flashy, gratuitous violence. My pull list got pretty eclectic, in the 90s. However, I read all kinds of material, even in the 70s. My collection had Archie and Harvey, as well as DC, Marvel, Charlton and Gold Key. I had westerns and war comics, as well as superhero, with a smidgen of horror (not my genre). So, I always looked for good sci-fi and fantasy tales, espionage and super-spy adventures, military stories, westerns and the like and you could find that in the indies, in the 90s, but with more sophisticated writing (in some cases). 90s James Bond comics were giving me what 90s James Bond films were not. I think Rob developed a style that was fast enough and worked well enough, for him, but which tended towards pin-ups, which is probably why he depended so much on stock panels and resorted to swiping when he deviated from that, as he fell outside his comfort zone. He didn't have an editor making him rework things or pairing him with people who could make up for his deficiencies. He also let himself get overwhelmed with too many books and overseeing other books and I think less and less work went into his books. I also think he, like McFarlane, had learned that original art that had poster/pin-up shots could sell for better prices and worked more of that into their layouts.
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Post by Batflunkie on Feb 2, 2022 20:09:50 GMT -5
Also Deadpool is ruined now. He actually use to be a good character. Now he is just .... ugh. Made it through 10 minutes of the first movie and walked away. He's also annoyingly obnoxious in Ultimate Spiderman animated series, a show I otherwise liked. I've never liked Deadpool at all, but I genuinely loved the first movie (the second not so much, felt a little phoned-in). I know people who're the same way with Howard The Duck, love the movie, couldn't care less about the comic (which I find insulting but not enough to get mad about)
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Post by jason on Feb 4, 2022 14:50:25 GMT -5
Youngblood had some potential to be done in a tongue in cheek way (think the Giffen era Justice League books) due to the premise of them licensing their image out, but instead it just played the premise straight and looked like a generic superhero comic (at least the Liefld-era issues did). The only "fun" character was Badrock IMO.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 4, 2022 22:39:05 GMT -5
Youngblood had some potential to be done in a tongue in cheek way (think the Giffen era Justice League books) due to the premise of them licensing their image out, but instead it just played the premise straight and looked like a generic superhero comic (at least the Liefld-era issues did). The only "fun" character was Badrock IMO. It and his other books had great entertainment value. There was a drinking game presented in CBG, where you took a drink every time a costume changed, between panels or pages. You could be blind drunk by page 10. If Rob had got a writer involved he could have had something halfway decent; but, he was part of the bunch who said the writers contributed nothing. Their own books tended to make the case for the opposing view. McFarlane wised up relatively quickly and got some notable writers involved in Spawn, which helped propel that along. Larson and Valentino could write their own stuff well enough for their audience (I just didn't think Valentino was as suited to superhero stuff as he was for more personal stuff, like Touch of Silver or stuff like normalman). Rob at least turned over Supreme to Alan Moore, who turned it into something. Rob is a guy who I think really needed an editor to filter his ideas and help get him to bring them into focus more. I tend to agree with Mike Grell, who felt that writers and artists needed an editor to keep their egos from overtaking their work and give an outside viewpoint. The creative people are too close to things.
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 5, 2022 6:31:56 GMT -5
As much as I enjoyed the Alan Moore Supreme run, the original 20 issues of the first Run was pretty solid. He was the first “Superman” anagram that had him as a jerk with an ongoing solo book.
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Post by coinilius on Feb 7, 2022 23:52:53 GMT -5
Also Deadpool is ruined now. He actually use to be a good character. Now he is just .... ugh. Made it through 10 minutes of the first movie and walked away. He's also annoyingly obnoxious in Ultimate Spiderman animated series, a show I otherwise liked. Could not agree more. I watched half the first movie, stopped it and never came back to it - it just did not do anything for me. One day I am going to have to make myself watch the rest of it…
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2022 1:53:42 GMT -5
I was listening to a liveplay D&D stream run by Matt Colville from 2016 and he was describing someone the party met, and he essentially said-"he looks like a flesh golem sort of, you know like Frankenstein out of proportion, like he was put together by someone who obviously had no sense of human proportion, you know, like he was drawn by Rob Liefeld! Like someone tried to draw a human having never seen one before." It was a perfect deadpan delivery. I couldn't stop laughing.
-M
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 2, 2022 6:18:27 GMT -5
I recently read X-force : Killshot, a book Liefeld produced for Marvel for their 30th anniversary on Marvel Unlimited. The art wasn't bad but the story was one long fight scene. I wonder what type of product he could produce with another writer.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 17, 2022 7:50:27 GMT -5
This cracks me up.
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Post by codystarbuck on Jul 17, 2022 11:30:44 GMT -5
I've seen a couple of those images (there is one where The Pouch is firing the gun and pouches fly out of it). The perspective is actually pretty good on that, especially compared to his glory days. He wasn't a bad artist; it just took him 35 years to work out the bad habits!
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