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Post by thwhtguardian on Apr 20, 2021 7:43:39 GMT -5
A podcast I listened to has presented the plausible-to-me-theory that
{Spoiler: Click to show}
Bucky will not survive this show. They make the case that once Bucky's made his peace with his past, his story's done and there's nowhere else to go with his character. While I don't think it's a slam dunk, I think it's plausible because the character of Bucky as written in the MCU is not really a character that stands on his own. His entire raison d'etre was to bring our aspects of Steve Roger's character in the films, and now Sam's character in this show. Besides that, the growing friendship and trust between Sam and Bucky shown in episode 5 reeks of that thing writers do where they make you really start caring about a character and his/her relationships in order to heighten the emotional impact from killing them off. I'd be really shocked if they did, I mean I know they killed off Tony Stark and RDJ is a super bankable actor so it's not out of the realm of possibilities but the show on the whole seems to play it relatively safe so I really don't see them doing anything that drastic. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 20, 2021 9:28:48 GMT -5
A podcast I listened to has presented the plausible-to-me-theory that
{Spoiler: Click to show}
Bucky will not survive this show. They make the case that once Bucky's made his peace with his past, his story's done and there's nowhere else to go with his character. While I don't think it's a slam dunk, I think it's plausible because the character of Bucky as written in the MCU is not really a character that stands on his own. His entire raison d'etre was to bring our aspects of Steve Roger's character in the films, and now Sam's character in this show. Besides that, the growing friendship and trust between Sam and Bucky shown in episode 5 reeks of that thing writers do where they make you really start caring about a character and his/her relationships in order to heighten the emotional impact from killing them off. I'd be really shocked if they did, I mean I know they killed off Tony Stark and RDJ is a super bankable actor so it's not out of the realm of possibilities but the show on the whole seems to play it relatively safe so I really don't see them doing anything that drastic. Yeah...but RDJ wanted to be done. And his paygrade was several levels above Sebastian Stan. Disney would have had to mortgage the Mouse to keep Downey working as Stark if they could have convinced him. Which isn't to say that Stan couldn't decide he wants to move on as an actor. But it's a good steady payday for him and it's a bankable character for the MCU. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
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Post by shaxper on Apr 22, 2021 0:13:35 GMT -5
We tried. We really tried tonight. Put on episode 3 and gave it our best shot.
We all agreed to shut it off after 25 minutes.
The writing is so bad. Less the dialogue than the internal logic. Why does character X do Y except to further the plot? Oh, and that was three, count 'em, THREE dramatic scenes of Falcon, Bucky, and Zemo just walking in the span of roughly five minutes.
I'll never fault someone for enjoying something nor attempt to take away their joy, but yikes. We can't watch this thing. And I even LIKE Zemo. He's the only developed character in this thing.
I respect the larger issues this series is trying to tackle, but I can't get past the storytelling itself.
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Post by impulse on Apr 22, 2021 11:34:44 GMT -5
Sorry to hear you aren't enjoying it. It's not a masterpiece, but I am still just happy to have ongoing stories in this universe.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Apr 22, 2021 13:17:16 GMT -5
We tried. We really tried tonight. Put on episode 3 and gave it our best shot. We all agreed to shut it off after 25 minutes. The writing is so bad. Less the dialogue than the internal logic. Why does character X do Y except to further the plot? Oh, and that was three, count 'em, THREE dramatic scenes of Falcon, Bucky, and Zemo just walking in the span of roughly five minutes. I'll never fault someone for enjoying something nor attempt to take away their joy, but yikes. We can't watch this thing. And I even LIKE Zemo. He's the only developed character in this thing. I respect the larger issues this series is trying to tackle, but I can't get past the storytelling itself. Episode three was really rough, though I thought the last episode was an improvement |
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Post by The Captain on Apr 22, 2021 16:03:03 GMT -5
We tried. We really tried tonight. Put on episode 3 and gave it our best shot. We all agreed to shut it off after 25 minutes. The writing is so bad. Less the dialogue than the internal logic. Why does character X do Y except to further the plot? Oh, and that was three, count 'em, THREE dramatic scenes of Falcon, Bucky, and Zemo just walking in the span of roughly five minutes. I'll never fault someone for enjoying something nor attempt to take away their joy, but yikes. We can't watch this thing. And I even LIKE Zemo. He's the only developed character in this thing. I respect the larger issues this series is trying to tackle, but I can't get past the storytelling itself. I get your feelings on the show. The first episode is kind of weird from the standpoint of setting things up, and the second and third are not good. It was just very disjointed and felt like they didn't know what direction to take the series. I will say, from my perspective, that it DOES improve greatly with Episodes 4 and 5. If you can push through the third one, you may be pleasantly surprised at the improvement. |
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Post by impulse on Apr 22, 2021 16:52:06 GMT -5
I agree with earlier sentiments that it will probably flow better in a binge session than as episodic with a wait between chunks.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,865
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Post by shaxper on Apr 22, 2021 17:51:39 GMT -5
I agree with earlier sentiments that it will probably flow better in a binge session than as episodic with a wait between chunks. Considering that we couldn't even get through a chunk, I'm not sure watching it all in one sitting would fare much better for us. I'd seriously consider leaving the theater after the second hour. |
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Post by Randle-El on Apr 22, 2021 23:02:51 GMT -5
I agree with earlier sentiments that it will probably flow better in a binge session than as episodic with a wait between chunks. Considering that we couldn't even get through a chunk, I'm not sure watching it all in one sitting would fare much better for us. I'd seriously consider leaving the theater after the second hour.
I myself am enjoying the show, the later episodes more so than the earlier ones, but I can get why it might not resonate. As someone who has done the force-myself-to-watch/read-something-because-everyone-says-how-great-it-is thing, I have learned that sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't. The key is to make the call before you have wasted a lot of time. Sounds like you made a valiant effort. Life's too short to force your self to consume entertainment that you're not enjoying.
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Post by majestic on Apr 23, 2021 9:26:08 GMT -5
I slogged through the first 3 episodes which the slow pacing made as exciting as watching paint dry. Ugh. I realize they had to set up the last 3 episodes but I think they could have done some better editing and condensed the first 3 episodes into one.
However the last 3 episodes were great.
What I liked: Sam's story and the struggle he went through mentally to get to where he did by the end. The storyline with Isaiah Bradley. Walker's fall from grace and slight "redemption" by the end. Zemo.
What I didn't like: Bucky was just a sub-plot. His role in this story really wasn't necessary to the overall plot. Sharon Carter's story.
I would like a sequel with Sam as Cap. Walker as US Agent and Bucky leaving the Winter Soldier name behind. I like the idea of him taking the Nomad name although I don't see that happening on TV or in the comics.
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Post by impulse on Apr 23, 2021 9:49:25 GMT -5
Yeah, you like what you like. No argument here. Now to say out of this thread until I can see the episode.
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Post by tarkintino on Apr 23, 2021 19:09:54 GMT -5
The series turned out to be the most sensible, relevant and yes, entertaining Marvel production I've watched in a very long time (I'm not a fan of the silly, overblown Avengers films, the hollow Spider-Man movies or predictable origin films like Captain Marvel, to name a few). The Falcon and the Winter Soldier was that rare production that had a real, natural reason for having serious sociopolitical situations and used them so effectively, perfectly blending in and serving the greater story (specifically the Isaiah Bradley and anti-super solider plots). The final episode of the season was a wonderful payoff and nicely tied up all loose ends...while dropping a couple of major teases for what is to come. Excellent, serious superhero show. That is exactly how I prefer the genre. Speaking of what is to come....
Captain America 4. |
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Apr 23, 2021 20:56:52 GMT -5
The show peaked at episode 4 for me, but then had a steady decline towards the end. {Spoiler: Click to show}
- Sharon Carter as the Power Broker was lame. Why is Marvel making her a full on bad guy??? Hope she's a skrull.
- I have mixed feelings on Sam as Captain America. I'm black myself, and thought it was cooler when he was just The Falcon. Not interested in hand-me-downs, and how now it's an entire circus regarding his race.
- I guess Julia Louise Dreyfus was our main cameo, but that didn't really move the needle for me. Was hoping for a hint at a heavy hitter towards the end.
- Should have just called Bucky the Winter Wolf now. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Apr 23, 2021 23:42:44 GMT -5
We tried. We really tried tonight. Put on episode 3 and gave it our best shot. We all agreed to shut it off after 25 minutes. The writing is so bad. Less the dialogue than the internal logic. Why does character X do Y except to further the plot? Oh, and that was three, count 'em, THREE dramatic scenes of Falcon, Bucky, and Zemo just walking in the span of roughly five minutes. I'll never fault someone for enjoying something nor attempt to take away their joy, but yikes. We can't watch this thing. And I even LIKE Zemo. He's the only developed character in this thing. I respect the larger issues this series is trying to tackle, but I can't get past the storytelling itself. Totally agree.. I was THIS close to doing the same. But the 2nd half is amazing. Stick with it, you won't be disappointed. This really should have just been released as the movie it actually is.... the presentation of breaking it up into bits and giving us the opportunity to stew of the weaknesses was dumb, when the strengths are so good. Fantastic conclusion... a bit hokey, sure, but it totally fits. Mackie killed it. I agree with BigpapaJoe with the star cameo and the Powerbroker stuff (that was totally unecessary, does nothing but set up a potential sequel), but the stuff with Sam and the Bradleys more than made up for it. As for Bucky, can't he just be Bucky? He's not a superhero, doesn't need a superhero name. I could see people in the dark corners of the MCU calling him 'the White Wolf' or even 'the Nomad' as a nickname, sure, but let him just be Bucky  |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Apr 24, 2021 7:48:31 GMT -5
I think there's a good movie that could have been made with the footage they shot here but as a series the plotting was a bit messy with too much time spent on things that ultimately didn't matter.
For me, it really seems like this was a film treatment that got stretched out to be a series, while Wandavision was something that was created with a series in mind.
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