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Post by wildfire2099 on May 10, 2021 10:01:41 GMT -5
I hear what you're saying about the realism, and agree, but I guess I've been desensitized to it. As long as the keep from doing WWE moves in what are supposed to be real fights I can take it. The Madripoor scene at the cargo containers was pretty bad though, I agree 100%
AS far as the Flag Smashers go, I think if they were able to go with the original plot about a virus, it would have worked better... I've read in a couple different places alot of Carli's stuff was cut when they re-worked it without those parts (For obvious reasons). Be interesting if they release that at some point.
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Post by Randle-El on May 13, 2021 22:12:53 GMT -5
The biggest problem I have is conceptual, but it is a factor in a lot of Hollywood productions, especially now. One, actors don't realistically portray soldiers, unless they go through Dale Dye's training camps. The 60s generation had mostly served in the Army, for at least a couple of years and could play soldiers. Modern actors never get near the military and play a writer's conception of what it is like. They substitute jargon for research and slap a uniform on an actor and that is supposed to work. That also translates into how soldiers fight in combat; and, specifically, super-soldiers. Steve went through elaborate training before and after his transformation. The serum improved his body; it didn't give him tactical skills and hand-to-hand combat training. Bucky was also a trained and experienced combat vet. Sam is a trained veteran. Karli and the other Flag Smashers? Nope. Sure, they are stronger and can move quicker; but, boxing and MMA have long shown that skill trumps size, until both skill levels are equal. Then, it's down to who can make the other fight their game. Karli and the others should be getting finessed by Walker and Bucky and even Sam, as he has enough gear to compensate for his strength level. The Dora Milage demonstrate that skill outclasses serum, in the fight at Zemo's, when Walker gets his butt handed to him (foreshadowing the ending).
I agree with your larger points that most Hollywood writers and actors lack first-hand military experience, and that the Flag Smashers should not have had the skill to go toe-to-toe with trained military personnel. But having said that.... I also find that Hollywood overestimates the hand-to-hand fighting capabilities of most military personnel. Most military personnel receive little training in hand-to-hand. Even those in combat roles are primarily trained to use guns and other weapons that are more efficient in taking out enemies. Sure, there's the occasional individual who specialized in hand-to-hand, and personnel from elite units like the Navy SEALs are, on average, probably better fighters than rank-and-file infantry. But if you go by Hollywood standards, most soldiers who served in combat could don a cool costume and become the next Batman.
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Post by codystarbuck on May 13, 2021 22:19:22 GMT -5
The biggest problem I have is conceptual, but it is a factor in a lot of Hollywood productions, especially now. One, actors don't realistically portray soldiers, unless they go through Dale Dye's training camps. The 60s generation had mostly served in the Army, for at least a couple of years and could play soldiers. Modern actors never get near the military and play a writer's conception of what it is like. They substitute jargon for research and slap a uniform on an actor and that is supposed to work. That also translates into how soldiers fight in combat; and, specifically, super-soldiers. Steve went through elaborate training before and after his transformation. The serum improved his body; it didn't give him tactical skills and hand-to-hand combat training. Bucky was also a trained and experienced combat vet. Sam is a trained veteran. Karli and the other Flag Smashers? Nope. Sure, they are stronger and can move quicker; but, boxing and MMA have long shown that skill trumps size, until both skill levels are equal. Then, it's down to who can make the other fight their game. Karli and the others should be getting finessed by Walker and Bucky and even Sam, as he has enough gear to compensate for his strength level. The Dora Milage demonstrate that skill outclasses serum, in the fight at Zemo's, when Walker gets his butt handed to him (foreshadowing the ending).
I agree with your larger points that most Hollywood writers and actors lack first-hand military experience, and that the Flag Smashers should not have had the skill to go toe-to-toe with trained military personnel. But having said that.... I also find that Hollywood overestimates the hand-to-hand fighting capabilities of most military personnel. Most military personnel receive little training in hand-to-hand. Even those in combat roles are primarily trained to use guns and other weapons that are more efficient in taking out enemies. Sure, there's the occasional individual who specialized in hand-to-hand, and personnel from elite units like the Navy SEALs are, on average, probably better fighters than rank-and-file infantry. But if you go by Hollywood standards, most soldiers who served in combat could don a cool costume and become the next Batman.
True, to a certain extent. Elite units get specialized training in hand-to-hand, much as the WW2 commandos. Even then, it is more to quickly neutralize someone, rather than a sustained fight. Still, gotta love this scene, from The Devil's Brigade... |
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