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Post by impulse on Dec 13, 2021 10:03:21 GMT -5
Not to mention that I doubt any of them really wanted to hurt the others. Stark was out of his mind a bit, but I imagine deep down they were all pulling punches to an extent.
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Post by tonebone on Jan 6, 2022 13:38:19 GMT -5
Least fun/Worst: Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Eternals, Shang-Chi
Most fun: Ant-Man, Captain America, Incredible Hulk, Avengers. Iron Man
Best: Winter Soldier, Civil War
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Post by tonebone on Jan 6, 2022 13:41:11 GMT -5
Not to mention that I doubt any of them really wanted to hurt the others. Stark was out of his mind a bit, but I imagine deep down they were all pulling punches to an extent. I always thought Civil War would have been the perfect movie to display Stark's battle with alcohol. It would serve to show how deeply his emotional wounds were, and his willingness to side with Ross, and get his ass whupped by Cap and Bucky. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 6, 2022 21:13:57 GMT -5
I'm surprised to see so many mentions of Black Panther as the worst... it was SO well done, IMO.
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Post by Cei-U! on Jan 7, 2022 4:30:26 GMT -5
I'm surprised to see so many mentions of Black Panther as the worst... it was SO well done, IMO. Yeah, me too. I'd place it third on a list of the best, behind Winter Soldier and Civil War.
Cei-U! Wakanda forever!
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Post by impulse on Jan 7, 2022 9:34:36 GMT -5
I think the more recent ones are suffering a bit from being in context. Individually, yeah, they are mostly fine, but they are so formulaic they are just more of the same.
I like what they are more of, but I can admit they are pretty cookie cutter by now.
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Post by Batflunkie on Jan 7, 2022 11:34:43 GMT -5
Black Panther was good, don't get me wrong, but not perfect (really though, what movie is?)
Like with Falcon & Winter Soldier, a most of it's messages felt heavy handed and flat
Still though, it was a fun ride. All I wanted out of the film was to see Wakanda on the big screen and I got all of that and more
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Post by dbutler69 on Jan 28, 2022 19:21:49 GMT -5
Least fun/Worst: Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Eternals, Shang-Chi Most fun: Ant-Man, Captain America, Incredible Hulk, Avengers. Iron Man Best: Winter Soldier, Civil War I mostly agree though I thought Black Panther was pretty good - though I certainly wouldn't call it fun, and I'd add Spider-Man: Homecoming to that list (I disliked it enough not to bother with the other Spider movies) and I thought the Guardians of the Galaxy movies were kinda fun. Not necessarily great, but fun. Jeff Goldlum as the Grandmaster was awesome! |
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Post by Randle-El on Jan 29, 2022 11:06:01 GMT -5
IMO, none of the MCU films have been horrible, and all of them have had at least a baseline level of entertainment value -- meaning, if I were on a long plane ride with nothing else to do, I'd probably sit through even the worst one to pass the time. There also hasn't been a single movie that I've seen a trailer for where I said "I have absolutely no desire to see that"... unlike, say, the Deadpool movies, the Venom movies, or some of the DCEU movies.
Because of the world building nature of Marvel films, I think the worst judgment I could level against a movie is if it's value lies mainly in its contribution to the bigger picture rather than being a satisfying standalone movie in its own right. In that respect, I'd probably put the Ant-Man films and the second Thor movie on that list. I might have put GotG2 on that list, but then I remembered it gave us this scene  :
The first Thor movie also gets a lot of flak as being one of the worst MCU entries. I also remembered it being not that great, but I recently re-watched it with my kids as part of introducing them to the MCU and thought it was actually much better than I remember. While the pivot into action/comedy in Thor: Ragnarok was a good move, I definitely think there was potential had they decided to really lean into the high fantasy/mythology themes of the first two movies.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 29, 2022 11:24:14 GMT -5
I thought Black Panther was awesome, and definitely not formulaic...I don't get it.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 29, 2022 14:08:30 GMT -5
I thought Black Panther was awesome, and definitely not formulaic...I don't get it.
Well, I wouldn't hold it against the film but it did follow a basic structure that had been seen in other movies like Rocky III, Superman II, The Dark Knight Rises, the Winter Soldier, Iron Man 2 and Thor. The hero is first shown to be pretty bad ass, then villains manage to take almost everything from them (power and/or status) until they're almost all alone, and then the hero rises again, defeats the bad guys, and regains their original position.
Even if it's a classic framework, and thus not truly an indictment, it's still something we have seen a number of times. Black Panther made it very entertaining, to be sure, but at no time did I go "I wasn't expecting that"... something that did happen, much to my surprise, in Eternals.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 29, 2022 17:37:05 GMT -5
I thought Black Panther was awesome, and definitely not formulaic...I don't get it.
Well, I wouldn't hold it against the film but it did follow a basic structure that had been seen in other movies like Rocky III, Superman II, The Dark Knight Rises, the Winter Soldier, Iron Man 2 and Thor. The hero is first shown to be pretty bad ass, then villains manage to take almost everything from them (power and/or status) until they're almost all alone, and then the hero rises again, defeats the bad guys, and regains their original position.
Even if it's a classic framework, and thus not truly an indictment, it's still something we have seen a number of times. Black Panther made it very entertaining, to be sure, but at no time did I go "I wasn't expecting that"... something that did happen, much to my surprise, in Eternals.
That's a pretty bare bones extract, if we simplify every plot to that point than literally every film is formulaic. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 29, 2022 18:05:40 GMT -5
Well, I wouldn't hold it against the film but it did follow a basic structure that had been seen in other movies like Rocky III, Superman II, The Dark Knight Rises, the Winter Soldier, Iron Man 2 and Thor. The hero is first shown to be pretty bad ass, then villains manage to take almost everything from them (power and/or status) until they're almost all alone, and then the hero rises again, defeats the bad guys, and regains their original position.
Even if it's a classic framework, and thus not truly an indictment, it's still something we have seen a number of times. Black Panther made it very entertaining, to be sure, but at no time did I go "I wasn't expecting that"... something that did happen, much to my surprise, in Eternals.
That's a pretty bare bones extract, if we simplify every plot to that point than literally every film is formulaic. The same stories are indeed often told again and again, which is not necessarily a fault if the retelling is entertaining. I don't think it's a stretch to say that Ant-Man had the same basic plot as Iron Man, for example. Does that make either movie bad? Not at all, they were both very enjoyable. However, someone who said that they were cast from a similar mold would have a point. Apart from the neat Wakandan designs in Black Panther, the film wasn't that different from several other MCU productions; at least not as far as its plot is concerned. Eternals, by contrast, completely subverted my expectations. I think Black Panther was the most emotionally engaging of the two (because Chadwick Boseman totally owned the role), but its plot was more predictable. |
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Post by Randle-El on Jan 29, 2022 21:11:42 GMT -5
The same stories are indeed often told again and again, which is not necessarily a fault if the retelling is entertaining.
I think this is true of most creative mediums. While pushing the creative boundaries is great, there's a reason why certain artistic formulas are so appealing, and that's why creators go back to them again and again. Given this inevitably, I don't necessarily fault a creator if they do this, so long as it's done well. A well-executed cliche can still be entertaining.
Hit songs work because they follow tried-and-true patterns. There's only only so many things you can do within the confines of pop music -- the chord progressions have all been done before, the beats have all been done before, so it's all about dressing it up in the best production and executing it well with a strong performance. I think a similar logic applies to movies.
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Post by tonebone on Jan 30, 2022 17:12:43 GMT -5
I thought Black Panther was awesome, and definitely not formulaic...I don't get it. I felt like Black Panther was incredibly over-hyped, as the greatest thing ever. When I finally saw it, expecting the most awesome movie ever, my reaction was ... "Eh...". It was competent. It was predictable. It had one really interesting characters (Killmonger), and some truly insufferable characters (T'Challa's little sister), and a BUNCH of really bland, forgettable characters. The story was run-of-the-mill, with some superfluous fight scenes and car chases. I was never really interested in the character in the comics, to be honest. I sort of have a thing where when something is over-hyped, I retreat from it... sometimes from defiance from "following the crowd" and sometimes because I'm just plain sick of hearing about it. By the time I saw Black Panther, I didn't find it "fun"... it felt like I was fulfilling an obligation. (No one asked me "Have you seen Black Panther?"... I was often asked "Have you seen Black Panther, YET?") I work in the videogame industry, and when Avatar came out, that's all I heard about every day, 8 hours a day, for a month. I never saw it, and probably never will. |
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