shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,864
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Post by shaxper on Oct 27, 2021 9:53:38 GMT -5
Spinning out of the Eternals discussion, Marvel hasn't made any films that have bombed commercially, but which film do you feel bombed the most creatively?
My vote is Iron Man 3, which began with a bold idea -- a hero actually coping with the emotional fallout of thwarting an alien invasion. That it takes nearly the entire film for Tony to suit up again really didn't bother me at all, even if having him place his confidence in a young boy definitely felt a little forced. But then it felt like a studio exec walked in the room and said "Where are the super battles and fire mutants and stuff?" and so the film took an abrupt 180 that didn't match the first two thirds. Worst yet, no one bothered to coordinate the film with Avengers 2, and so the big finale, with Tony retiring and Pepper possibly set up to be his replacement, ends up going nowhere.
I guess it's the cost of being Marvel's first successful franchise, but the Iron Man sequels are the only ones I insist on skipping when rewatching the MCU from the beginning (which, to be fair, I've only attempted once).
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Oct 27, 2021 10:05:49 GMT -5
I remember finding Iron Man 3 (also 2?) and Avengers 2 really underwhelming, and in the case of the latter, pretty confusing. But my go to answer for worst Marvel movie is usually Thor 2, which I just remember being very dull
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 27, 2021 10:25:29 GMT -5
I've never felt any desire to re-visit Iron Man 3, Thor 2 or The Incredible Hulk. So I'm going to go with one of them.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,864
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Post by shaxper on Oct 27, 2021 10:38:33 GMT -5
I've never felt any desire to re-visit Iron Man 3, Thor 2 or The Incredible Hulk. So I'm going to go with one of them. I really enjoy the Incredible Hulk. Just watched it again a few weeks ago. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 27, 2021 11:08:58 GMT -5
Objectively speaking, I'd say that almost all of the Marvel movies are just honest (though usually pretty amusing) pop movies, without any pretence of being great art. They're all made from the same recipe, and it's pretty hard to say that one was truly bad when compared to the others. Of course, some were more entertaining, or done with more skill, but I think that the fairest metric to use here is the one Slam brought up: which ones don't we feel like watching again?
In my case, without any judgement, here are the ones I saw only once and don't feel like seeing again:
Captain America: the First Avenger
Ant-Man and the Wasp
Captain Marvel
Iron Man 2
Guardians of the galaxy vol. 2
*edit*
Shang-Chi, too.
I did watch Age of Ultron again, but won't do it a third time.
I hasten to add that I didn't dislike any of these movies; they just weren't special enough for me to want to revisit them.
Iron Man 3 was pretty good, I thought, including its twist about the Mandarin not being an actual super-villain; what killed it for me was the overlong and epilepsy-inducing CGI battle at the end. I want to watch a movie, not a videogame.
And Thor: the Dark World remains one of my favourites. Not only in terms of enjoyment, but in the way it managed to give all of the supporting cast a moment to shine. It's also the movie that turned Loki from a funny villain with good lines into an actual character; Hiddleston's reaction to the death of his mother was a rare moment of Thespian grace in this multibillion dollars franchise.
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Post by The Captain on Oct 27, 2021 12:00:14 GMT -5
For me, it's Guardians 2.
There's nothing redeeming about it, and it ultimately adds zero to the MCU's continuing narrative. Absolutely nothing that occurs in that movie has any impact on anything that comes after it.
Mantis is only useful if they're going to do the Celestial Madonna story, which they're not, so she's just another quirky kook on the team.
Jokes are cringe-worthy, story is pointless.
I've watched it twice. Once on opening day, once with my daughters. There will NEVER be a third viewing.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 27, 2021 12:28:29 GMT -5
For me, it's Guardians 2. That could likely be added in to my list. I honestly only vaguely remember it, mostly for Kurt Russell. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 27, 2021 12:37:16 GMT -5
For me, it's Guardians 2. There's nothing redeeming about it, and it ultimately adds zero to the MCU's continuing narrative. Absolutely nothing that occurs in that movie has any impact on anything that comes after it. Mantis is only useful if they're going to do the Celestial Madonna story, which they're not, so she's just another quirky kook on the team. Jokes are cringe-worthy, story is pointless. I've watched it twice. Once on opening day, once with my daughters. There will NEVER be a third viewing. It's bad when the post-credit scene is the most interesting one in a movie! |
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Post by Cei-U! on Oct 27, 2021 15:49:20 GMT -5
Incredible Hulk, mostly due to the bad CGI on Hulk and, especially, Abomination.
Cei-U!
I summon the eyesore!
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Post by tarkintino on Oct 27, 2021 16:25:03 GMT -5
Guardians of the Galaxy 1 and 2. Just awful and turned comic relief into a noisy cartoon.
Avengers / Avengers: Age of Ultron. Whedon was a hack and the films were just one joke and fight after another with no character using adult reasoning to address their situation.
Black Widow. It played like the very thing it was: a film with no purpose that seemed like it was just a watered down consolation prize for "ScarJo" not having a solo film after 50,000 other MCU characters did. The fact that Black Widow had been killed off made whatever she was doing in her film seem meaningless. Well, except for the obvious set-up for her sister to appear in the Hawkeye TV series.
Iron Man 1-3. I've never appreciated Downey jr's take on the character.
Ant Man 1 and 2. Rudd constantly making Lang a dumbass undercut Ant Man's potential as anyone who be a formidable superhero in any future films.
MCU Spider-Man. Holland's version is annoying with his desperation to be acknowledged by Stark and lacked any of the psychological burdens Parker typically carried on his shoulders in the comics, and in live action in the great Raimi Spider-Man films (even III was worth the Parker parts alone).
Thor: Ragnarok: Some like his film, but Hemsworth only captured that non-nonsense, forceful side of comic Thor in the 1st film. Ragnarok reduced him to uncharacteristic comic relief all due to Disney/Marvel wanting to salvage an underperforming Thor movie series.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 27, 2021 21:46:14 GMT -5
I haven't seen Shang-Chi or Black Widow; so, they get a pass. Both Iron Man sequels do little for me and the second was a complete waste of Justin Hammer and Whiplash. They were in a position to do an adaptation of Demon in a Bottle, which is something Downey could have sunk his teeth into, but went with blah stories. Captain Marvel didn't do much for me at all; not bad, just not interesting and they added nothing to the character and didn't particularly use Carol Danvers well or reference Mar-Vell's history well. The Skrulls were about the high point, such as there was one.
Thor 2 was completely forgettable and 1 suffered from having a truncated third act to feed into Avengers.
Avengers 1 and 2 are fine while watching but devoid of any real meat for my brain. The Thanos stuff was much better.
Incredible Hulk is okay, but nothing spectacular and they really seem to have little imagination for the character. I liked him far more in Thor: Ragnarok and the later Avengers.
I like the Ant-Man films; nice caper stuff, not too heavy, not completely jokey. GOTG is fun for what it is, which is mindless Star Wars stuff, with better dialogue and my childhood for a soundtrack. 2 was weaker, but enjoyable enough.
Of what I have seen, I'd put Captain Marvel, Iron Man 2 & 3, and Thor 2 at the bottom of the list, in no particular order. Each has bits here and there; but, are underwhelming, for my tastes. To me, they are much like the average Marvel story where they are just keeping the book going, before someone imaginative took over.
Really, the formulaic stories were worn thin after Phase 1. Captain America has been the one really consistent sub-franchise, thanks to both Chris Evans and people like the Russo Brothers. It just seems to bring out something in those involved. Hemsworth is good in the Thor films, but the early efforts can get ponderous and Hiddleston steals the films. Ragnarok gave it a nice fun jolt, rather like what Walt Simonson did, in the comics, for me. Avengers just seemed like generic fights with a thin plot to link fight scenes and a bunch of one liners, until Infinity War/Endgame. Guardians was fun, if rather mindless and often sophomoric. Sometimes dumb works.
Ant-Man gets a lot of mileage out of the actors and the personality they give the characters helps elevate the material, plus, I enjoy caper films. These aren't Topkapi or even Who's Minding the Mint?; but, they get enough right, for me.
I liked Black Panther and loved the Agent Carter series and would have loved a whole Peggy carter film series, across the decades.
I think it is time for Marvel Studios to step up and start working beyond the formulaic superhero properties and explore their other characters and genres (DC, too). I'd like to see them do a western franchise and maybe the Howling Commandos, without Cap, or Dominic Fortune, Killraven, Deathlok, or some of their horror characters. Tomb of Dracula should be a no-brainer.
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Post by Ricky Jackson on Oct 27, 2021 22:48:41 GMT -5
Yeah, was just thinking yesterday that a Tomb of Dracula movie or series would be really cool
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Post by The Captain on Oct 28, 2021 5:47:11 GMT -5
Yeah, was just thinking yesterday that a Tomb of Dracula movie or series would be really cool We are supposedly getting a Blade TV series, which could be a sort of ToD series, depending on how they do it, but it wouldn't focus on Dracula obviously. That said, I don't think they'll actually introduce Dracula into the MCU. There would have to be a lot of explanation about how he exists there, so they'd likely just create another "Big Bad" vampire to serve that role. |
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Post by impulse on Oct 28, 2021 11:19:15 GMT -5
I've never felt any desire to re-visit Iron Man 3, Thor 2 or The Incredible Hulk. So I'm going to go with one of them. I was very disappointed with IM3. I haven't rewatched it. Thor 2 I have yet to make it through as I fall asleep every time I have tried. Granted, that has only been twice so far, but still. The Incredible Hulk was kind of an awkward transition year movie. Not quite the MCU proper. I feel like Hulk as we got him in the MCU was a soft rebooted version. But I agree that these would be among the MCU movies I am least interested in revisiting, plus Avengers 2. I do eventually plan to try and rewatch the full MCU to date at some point. Iron Man 3 was pretty good, I thought, including its twist about the Mandarin not being an actual super-villain; what killed it for me was the overlong and epilepsy-inducing CGI battle at the end. I want to watch a movie, not a videogame. I will add that, while I appreciate the thought behind the twist as well as the acting, I was actually pretty disappointed. I thought the move the trailer presented - a more straight-up action movie with a traditional villain looked a lot more exciting than the meandering movie we got. Seeing Tony struggle with his confidence and having to get it together to fight the biggest baddest big bad yet and bang shit up real good looked like a lot of fun, and that's really what I expect from these movies most of the time. Side note: While not MCU, the other most deceiving trailer for a Marvel-ish movie IMO was X-Men 3 The Last Stand for me. The movie in the trailer looked great. The movie I saw was a disaster. I don't recall ever feeling as betrayed by a movie trailer as this one. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Oct 28, 2021 18:42:20 GMT -5
definitely Guardians of the Galaxy 2 for me.. the first one was barely watchable, the 2nd I didn't even finish. Iron Man 3 is pretty bad too.. I'd take that as a close 2nd.
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