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Post by kirby101 on Feb 5, 2024 9:09:40 GMT -5
I agree the Miller run was the high point for the character. His introduction of the Ninja element alone changed the industry. I am also a fan of the Ann Nocenti/Jonny Romita Jr run. Especially with Williamson inking.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Feb 5, 2024 9:52:00 GMT -5
So many great runs, so many good issues, it's hard to select a single favourite one.
The swashbuckling and wise-cracking days were fun. The Miller era was thrilling. The Nocenti working-class hero run was unexpected and smart.
I'd also like to mention a story line that will probably not be mentioned otherwise. It's set during the Bendis-Maleev days and features a support group for people whose lives have been affected by Daredevil. Everyone has their turn telling their own story, Canterbury-style. Each character has a very distinct face, and as we go from story to story we get familiar with them all. Then a dude explains that Matt Murdock is a ninja, and that he could be in this very room without anyone noticing. This causes Matt to reveal himself, as sure enough he was there from the very beginning. What makes this amazing is that he was there from the beginning! I mean, he was right there on the page!!! We readers had never noticed, because he'd be partly hidden by a word balloon or too close to the camera, but he was there!
I thought that was a brilliant use of the comic-book medium. It would have been hard to pull that kind of storytelling stunt on film or in a prose book.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,867
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Post by shaxper on Feb 5, 2024 10:10:44 GMT -5
A thought to consider:
I think we all agree that Frank Miller "saved" Daredevil. However, considering that Marvel has never allowed any of its early superhero properties to remain dormant forever (X-Men, Silver Surfer, Captain Marvel, etc), it seems inevitable that, had there been no Frank Miller, someone else eventually would have "saved" Daredevil in some other way, even if the series had been temporarily cancelled.
So my question: If Frank Miller had never saved Daredevil, who would have, and what might that approach have looked like?
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Feb 5, 2024 10:48:43 GMT -5
To me Daredevil #353-364 by Karl Kesel and Cary Nord are what caught my attention. I am otherwise pretty indifferent to DD. Don't dislike him or like him. In the hands of a good writer/artist he can catch my attention. But I have never been a stalwart fan.
As to the Miller question I cannot really answer. The only DD I have read pre-Miller were random issues that I bought for the character appearances in them not for DD himself. I think the Miller part is good. I think it was a good story. I can't say if he "saved" DD though.
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Post by jester on Feb 5, 2024 11:16:14 GMT -5
I recall a DD/Vulture encounter in the 90s, but the issue number escapes me. Him versus Man-Bat’s radar sense would be intriguing. I do wonder why there has never been an attempt to do a DD cartoon. I don’t even recall him appearing in, say, the 90s Spider-Man cartoon. I’m sure he must have guest starred in at least one cartoon. If he didn’t, perhaps, prior to the MCU (and Affleck’s film), they didn’t think his profile was high enough. There's at least one DD/Vulture encounter that I'm aware of, In DD #225, from the O'Neil/Mazzucchelli era. It's a great issue, probably the high point of O'Neil's run on the character, that makes excellent use of the Vulture. I've heard that at some point in the 80s, there were plans for a DD cartoon, but they were jettisoned after someone saw an issue that convinced a higher up that the character wasn't suitable for children (it was either the "No More Mr. Nice Guy" issue or the angel dust storyline). Not sure if that's true or just a comics urban legend.
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Post by james on Feb 5, 2024 12:05:45 GMT -5
Pure coincidence, that 60 years after his introduction I am rereading Miller/ Romita Jr's Daredevil The Man WithOut Fear Miniseries. Favorite cover 158. 1. Man-Wolf just picked up Creatures on the Loose 30-36 2.Ulik 3. Big Barda 4. Monsieur Mallah and the Brain
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2024 12:20:25 GMT -5
I read Daredevil #1 for the first time.
It was interesting, as I’ve not really read much in the way of pre-Frank Miller DD before.
And I would love to see a DD/TMNT crossover.
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Post by driver1980 on Feb 5, 2024 13:17:30 GMT -5
I’ve lost track of modern DD because of Marvel’s “I want to eat my cake and then have it too” approach of renumbering every time a new arc starts. I guess writer ego is the priority, rather than practicality. I mean, I believe the last issue I read ended in 2020 (possibly), but when I searched for “Daredevil 1 in 2021” or similar terms, I couldn’t pinpoint the next arc.
It’s pathetic.
As a kid, I read The Incredible Hulk #349 (Hulk vs. Spidey). I drifted away. Years later, I remembered that the last Hulk comic I had read was #349, so when it came to back issue bins/eBay hunts, I knew #350 was the one I had to find - which I did. So easy.
But I ain’t doing “homework”. God bless LCS owners who have to sort out back issue bins in any semblance of chronological order. I know some titles use legacy numbers, too (which is why I refer to their “I want to eat my cake and then have it too” approach). But I give up. Be counter-intuitive. Deprive yourself of money. Yours truly could be ordering copies of whatever Daredevil #1 came next in my reading (Kingpin was still Mayor of NYC in the issue I read), but I can’t be bothered. Lazy? I’m not a lazy person in any way. But it’s impossible to jump on board with this ‘new number 1 approach’.
Funnily enough, I also know the number of the last issue of The Walking Dead I read (#180, new World Order arc). When I can afford to resume that book, I’ll either buy #181 or the Vol. 31 trade. Some publishers make it so easy.
Don’t even get me started on the LCS employee who once told me he’d accidentally ordered the wrong Aquaman volume for someone (Rebirth era rather than New 52, due to numbering issues).
So, I am a bit disappointed. Who wants to do “homework” or risk ordering the wrong thing? If I knew the next issue was, say, #720 or something, that’d be so easier to search for and find. I did like the modern stuff a lot.
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Post by kirby101 on Feb 5, 2024 13:43:13 GMT -5
A thought to consider: I think we all agree that Frank Miller "saved" Daredevil. However, considering that Marvel has never allowed any of its early superhero properties to remain dormant forever (X-Men, Silver Surfer, Captain Marvel, etc), it seems inevitable that, had there been no Frank Miller, someone else eventually would have "saved" Daredevil in some other way, even if the series had been temporarily cancelled. So my question: If Frank Miller had never saved Daredevil, who would have, and what might that approach have looked like? There is no doubt that Miller made DD a major book at Marvel. And before that he was second tier. But I don't know if there was a danger of cancellation, or if someone else would come along and make it a better book, maybe not the classic Miller did, but odds are we would have seen a good DD.
BTW, the The last issues before Miller took over had some stellar Colan/Janson art.
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Post by james on Feb 5, 2024 13:46:26 GMT -5
A thought to consider: I think we all agree that Frank Miller "saved" Daredevil. However, considering that Marvel has never allowed any of its early superhero properties to remain dormant forever (X-Men, Silver Surfer, Captain Marvel, etc), it seems inevitable that, had there been no Frank Miller, someone else eventually would have "saved" Daredevil in some other way, even if the series had been temporarily cancelled. So my question: If Frank Miller had never saved Daredevil, who would have, and what might that approach have looked like? There is no doubt that Miller made DD a major book at Marvel. And before that he was second tier. But I don't know if there was a danger of cancellation, or if someone else would come along and make it a better book, maybe not the classic Miller did, but odds are we would have seen a good DD. BTW, the The last issues before Miller took over had some stellar Colan/Janson art. Roger Mckenzie and John Byrne or Mike Zeck?
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Post by Calidore on Feb 5, 2024 14:06:45 GMT -5
For an inter-company crossover, I think Daredevil/Question written by Dennis O'Neil could be pretty good.
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Post by Prince Hal on Feb 5, 2024 14:12:51 GMT -5
My first encounter with Daredevil, a great Daredevil moment, remains indelibly etched into my memory. Even though he destroys Attuma's hordes in one swell foop he is unfortunately relegated to the bottom of the page beneath five goobers (Look at the Beetle, just standing there; his special power must be super-gloating) trying to defeat ten-year-old Bobby Drake, clad only in boxers and boots. Oh, and even though he looks like a a mass murderer atop the next page, worry not; it was only a Vortex Bomb. All it does is suck hordes back to the depths of the ocean.
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Post by MDG on Feb 5, 2024 14:37:40 GMT -5
A thought to consider: I think we all agree that Frank Miller "saved" Daredevil. However, considering that Marvel has never allowed any of its early superhero properties to remain dormant forever (X-Men, Silver Surfer, Captain Marvel, etc), it seems inevitable that, had there been no Frank Miller, someone else eventually would have "saved" Daredevil in some other way, even if the series had been temporarily cancelled. So my question: If Frank Miller had never saved Daredevil, who would have, and what might that approach have looked like? There is no doubt that Miller made DD a major book at Marvel. And before that he was second tier. But I don't know if there was a danger of cancellation, or if someone else would come along and make it a better book, maybe not the classic Miller did, but odds are we would have seen a good DD. BTW, the The last issues before Miller took over had some stellar Colan/Janson art. I don't know if Miller "saved" Daredevil, but he did make it a major book. My roommate had some DDs in the early 150s with, IMO, some excellent Kane/Janson art--certainly better than the average books of the time.
Miller gained my attention due to his storytelling innovations more than the story (Mckenzie, right?) or his drawing style.
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Post by commond on Feb 5, 2024 18:45:26 GMT -5
So many great runs, so many good issues, it's hard to select a single favourite one. The swashbuckling and wise-cracking days were fun. The Miller era was thrilling. The Nocenti working-class hero run was unexpected and smart. I'd also like to mention a story line that will probably not be mentioned otherwise. It's set during the Bendis-Maleev days and features a support group for people whose lives have been affected by Daredevil. Everyone has their turn telling their own story, Canterbury-style. Each character has a very distinct face, and as we go from story to story we get familiar with them all. Then a dude explains that Matt Murdock is a ninja, and that he could be in this very room without anyone noticing. This causes Matt to reveal himself, as sure enough he was there from the very beginning. What makes this amazing is that he was there from the beginning! I mean, he was right there on the page!!! We readers had never noticed, because he'd be partly hidden by a word balloon or too close to the camera, but he was there! I thought that was a brilliant use of the comic-book medium. It would have been hard to pull that kind of storytelling stunt on film or in a prose book. That's an excellent storyline. The Bendis/Maleev run as a whole represents a huge chunk of the Daredevil mythos to me. The Brubaker/Lark run is a decent follow-up, but nowhere near as innovative.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,867
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Post by shaxper on Feb 5, 2024 20:16:39 GMT -5
My apologies for assuming it was a given that Miller "saved" DD. I definitely spoke too soon.
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