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Post by berkley on Feb 5, 2024 22:19:04 GMT -5
My favourite era is the Stan Lee - Gene Colan. The latter stayed with the character through several writing changes but it was those earlier issues that made the biggest impression on me visually. I think it's Colan's best and most exciting work as an action artist, if there's such an expression. His later DD was probably superior in many respects, certainly more atmospheric with the inks of guys like Palmer or Syd Shores, but for sheer energy and exuberance it was his first 20 or 30 issues that stand out to me.
I'm also in the minority that really enjoys Stan's writing on the title: yes, it was crazy and implausible even by the comic book standards and no, he wasn't able to come up with much of a rogue's gallery for DD, but I think it really brought out his knack for wise-cracking humour and soap opera melodrama. All round, both artwork and writing, this is just one of the most pure fun-to-read Marvel comics runs for me.
The Frank Miller era changed everything to such a degree that I look upon it as pretty much a distinct character of its own with very little spiritual connection with the earlier DD. I'm a bit ambivalent about it: yes it was well written, and obviously revitalised the character for the comicbook readership at large, but I don't think the marriage of the superhero and hard-boiled genres works in the end - or even can work, given the conflicting natures of the two genres. Obviously most fans disagree since Miller's DD was a great hit and even influenced superhero comics as a whole, along with other Miller comics like Batman.
I'm still trying to come up with answers to the four questions, five if we add Shaxper's. I would have thought Daredevil had already interacted with almost any MU character you could name by now; and I don't know the DCU enough to have many ideas apart from one obvious one. But I'll think of something.
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 6, 2024 1:52:26 GMT -5
Love Gene Colan drawing Daredevil; but, in terms of stories, some of my favorites are from the Len Wein and Bob Brown run, and Marv Wolfman and Brown. Lot of good stuff there, including the debut of Bullseye.   In terms of Miller "saving" Daredevil, I point to the earlier Shooter & Kane stuff, with the Purple man and Heather Glen's father and would say it was doing just fine. Miller made it bigger; but, I would say at the expense of some of the facets that made him unique. I love his run(s); but, I missed the swashbuckling wisecracker.   I like some of the less-honored stories, like the Annual, with Electro's Emissaries of Evil, for the Gene Colan art, if not the story. Saw it in reprint form,  in the 70s and it was my intro to the character. [Add the 4th Annual, with Namor and Black Panther  and Daredevil #47....  Stilt-Man is always welcome and I even liked The Masked Marauder (the first Cylon.....)  |
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Post by codystarbuck on Feb 6, 2024 1:57:37 GMT -5
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Post by commond on Feb 6, 2024 5:45:07 GMT -5
I love Stilt-Man. It always bugs me when modern writers make fun of him.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Feb 6, 2024 8:21:49 GMT -5
Another big fan of Stilt-Man here. He looks really cool and Wilbur Day is actually a somewhat tragic figure, which is a big factor in why I like him so much. A very underrated villain.
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Post by james on Feb 6, 2024 9:27:16 GMT -5
Another big fan of Stilt-Man here. He looks really cool and Wilbur Day is actually a somewhat tragic figure, which is a big factor in why I like him so much. A very underrated villain. Gladiator is a favorite of mine and also pretty tragic. One of my favorite issues of DD. Issue 166.  And come to think of it issue 167 . The Mauler was pretty damn tragic too.  Guess that was the theme during Miller's run. Tragic characters vs the tragic hero From Matt, to Mauler, to Gladiator, to Hulk, to Punisher, to Elektra, and even Bullseye. |
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Post by EdoBosnar on Feb 6, 2024 11:42:44 GMT -5
(...) Guess that was the theme during Miller's run. Tragic characters vs the tragic hero From Matt, to Mauler, to Gladiator, to Hulk, to Punisher, to Elektra, and even Bullseye. Sure, but remember that the Hulk story (a personal favorite of mine) was actually written by Roger McKenzie, who also scripted the Gladiator story you noted (Miller co-plotted it); David Michelinie wrote the Mauler story. |
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Post by james on Feb 6, 2024 11:53:39 GMT -5
(...) Guess that was the theme during Miller's run. Tragic characters vs the tragic hero From Matt, to Mauler, to Gladiator, to Hulk, to Punisher, to Elektra, and even Bullseye. Sure, but remember that the Hulk story (a personal favorite mine) was actually written by Roger McKenzie, who also scripted the Gladiator story you noted (Miller co-plotted it); David Michelinie wrote the Mauler story. Yes good point. I can't believe I forgot that as I think Roger Mackenzie never got the credit for those issues that I thought he should have |
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Post by berkley on Feb 6, 2024 13:06:22 GMT -5
Sure, but remember that the Hulk story (a personal favorite mine) was actually written by Roger McKenzie, who also scripted the Gladiator story you noted (Miller co-plotted it); David Michelinie wrote the Mauler story. Yes good point. I can't believe I forgot that as I think Roger Mackenzie never got the credit for those issues that I thought he should have
I like the issues drawn by Miller but written by others, mostly MacKenzie. The artwork especially is more to my taste than when Miller was writing as well as drawing.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Feb 6, 2024 13:14:23 GMT -5
Yes good point. I can't believe I forgot that as I think Roger Mackenzie never got the credit for those issues that I thought he should haveI totally agree and it's a real sticking point for me; I always feel dutybound to point out that the first ten issues of 'Miller's first DD run' were in fact mostly written by McKenzie (with - as noted - Michelinie writing #167). A really egregious example of this kind of erasure can be seen on the cover of the Panini pocketbook that collects Daredevil #s 158-167:
There was more than enough room to add McKenzie's name...
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Post by james on Feb 6, 2024 14:24:57 GMT -5
I totally agree and it's a real sticking point for me; I always feel dutybound to point out that the first ten issues of 'Miller's first DD run' were in fact mostly written by McKenzie (with - as noted - Michelinie writing #167). A really egregious example of this kind of erasure can be seen on the cover of the Panini pocketbook that collects Daredevil #s 158-167:
There was more than enough room to add McKenzie's name...
Wow! Literally, did not get credit. Sad. |
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Post by chaykinstevens on Feb 6, 2024 14:55:38 GMT -5
Love Gene Colan drawing Daredevil; but, in terms of stories, some of my favorites are from the Len Wein and Bob Brown run, and Marv Wolfman and Brown. I think Len Wein's work on Daredevil consisted of writing part of DD #71 and part of #124, both of which were drawn by Gene Colan. |
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Post by berkley on Feb 6, 2024 20:31:13 GMT -5
Love Gene Colan drawing Daredevil; but, in terms of stories, some of my favorites are from the Len Wein and Bob Brown run, and Marv Wolfman and Brown. I think Len Wein's work on Daredevil consisted of writing part of DD #71 and part of #124, both of which were drawn by Gene Colan.
I like that era too but the artwork was so inconsistent. It was always a relief when Colan came back for an issue. I seem to remember Jim Mooney doing some nice work during that time too, in his low-key way. I've seen much better work by Brown elsewhere than on DD; also, Brown and Colletta were a mismatch of styles, for me. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Feb 6, 2024 21:18:26 GMT -5
Of course, in addition to Miller's celebrated 1979-1983 run on Daredevil, there was also his "Born Again" arc from 1986, which is absolutely fantastic. In fact, it's one of the best things of Miller's that I've read.  Miller really puts Matt Murdock through the emotional wringer here -- even flirting with him actually losing his mind. The heavy Christian/Catholic imagery and themes in the story work well, with Murdock presented as a kind of Messianic figure, (almost) rising from the dead to save mankind (or Hell's Kitchen at least). That said, I'm not sure how I feel about Karen Page having become a failed soft porn actress and junky, who sells Murdock's secret identity for a hit of heroin. Where the hell did that character development come from?! But it works great as a catalyst for the events in the story. David Mazzucchelli's art is good, with clean lines, impeccable panel-to-panel pacing, and an abundance of raw emotion. I certainly didn't miss Miller's artwork at all -- and I say that as a fan of his work. "Born Again" is a gripping read and a worthy last hurrah return for Miller, following his earlier run. |
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Post by berkley on Feb 6, 2024 21:36:19 GMT -5
Of course, in addition to Miller's celebrated 1979-1983 run on Daredevil, there was also his "Born Again" arc from 1986, which is absolutely fantastic. In fact, it's one of the best things of Miller's that I've read. It's a thoroughly gripping read and Miller really puts Matt Murdock through the emotional wringer. He even flirts with him actually losing his mind. The heavy Christian/Catholic imagery and themes in the story work well, with Murdock presented as a kind of Messianic figure, (almost) rising from the dead to save mankind (or Hell's Kitchen at least). That said, I'm not sure how I feel about Karen Page having become a failed soft porn actress and junky, who sells Murdock's secret identity for a hit of heroin. Where the hell did that character development come from? But it works great as a catalyst for the events in the story. David Mazzucchelli's art is very good, with clean lines, impeccable panel-to-panel pacing, and an abundance of raw emotion. I certainly didn't miss Miller's artwork at all -- and I say that as a fan of his work. "Born Again" is a worthy last hurrah return for Miller, following his earlier run.
I haven't read that one yet, still missing one back issue to complete the story.
But Miller being so famous for both Daredevil and Batman, and in both cases with the same creative teams, first doing the art himself along with Janson, and then having Mazzucchelli - all this should have made a Daredevil+Batman crossover or team-up a no-brainer. I would imagine two separate miniseries, one with Miller doing the art and another with Mazzucchelli. I'd be curious to see how a Daredevil story might look and feel when drawn in the style Miller used on Dark Knight.
The only problem is, even with famous Daredevil writer Miller handling it you'd probably get still the "Bat-God" who always comes out on top, with Daredevil playing the rôle of hapless sidekick or, worse, punching bag for the DC character.
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