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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 6, 2014 12:32:25 GMT -5
Molest might be strong. And I have no doubt they intended it just as a joke. But it is a little creepy. I'm sure you're right about their intentions, but I think it's more than just a little creepy. I'm not sure where the line is drawn where you start calling it molestation, but the dress wasn't just touching her arm or her back. And Barda's outraged reaction surely means that at some level the writer and artist knew that Plastic Man had stepped over some kind of bound - unless you think they meant her to be perceived by the reader as hysterically over-reacting to a harmless gag. Maybe I've become hypersensitised to this issue lately because of the Jian Gomeshi case here in Canada. Not that Plastic Man was using violence the way Gomeshi is accused of having done in his private life, but the "stunt" doesn't look all that different to some of the things Gomeshi's alleged to have done at the workplace, things that, if true, anyone would condemn. To quote a recent Guardian article by one former co-worker: "I was essentially forced to either leave the show or allow my boss to lay his hands on my body at his pleasure." (link: Jian Ghomeshi harassed me on the job. Why did our radio station look the other way? Kathryn Borel). I don't mean to keep harping on this, and I'm very much afraid that I sound like some preacher getting on his moral high horse, but that's the way I see it. No worry; we probably all see certain scenes as particularly despicable. In my case it's the ending of The killing joke, where Batman shares a laugh with the Joker just after that sick $%# crippled Barbara Gordon and tortured her father. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 12:39:41 GMT -5
I'm with Berk. Plas was in intimate physical contact with Barda's breasts and buttocks without her permission. That's beyond creepy, it's flat-out sexual assault. Cei-U! I summon the biiiiig no-no! Okay, I agree that the actions of the character constituted a sexual assault. Plas should have faced some serious consequences, been kicked out of the League or at least had his butt kicked by Barda. The fact that he didn't, that the creators thought this was just a joke, is creepy. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Dec 6, 2014 13:36:07 GMT -5
I'm sure you're right about their intentions, but I think it's more than just a little creepy. I'm not sure where the line is drawn where you start calling it molestation, but the dress wasn't just touching her arm or her back. And Barda's outraged reaction surely means that at some level the writer and artist knew that Plastic Man had stepped over some kind of bound - unless you think they meant her to be perceived by the reader as hysterically over-reacting to a harmless gag. Maybe I've become hypersensitised to this issue lately because of the Jian Gomeshi case here in Canada. Not that Plastic Man was using violence the way Gomeshi is accused of having done in his private life, but the "stunt" doesn't look all that different to some of the things Gomeshi's alleged to have done at the workplace, things that, if true, anyone would condemn. To quote a recent Guardian article by one former co-worker: "I was essentially forced to either leave the show or allow my boss to lay his hands on my body at his pleasure." (link: Jian Ghomeshi harassed me on the job. Why did our radio station look the other way? Kathryn Borel). I don't mean to keep harping on this, and I'm very much afraid that I sound like some preacher getting on his moral high horse, but that's the way I see it. No worry; we probably all see certain scenes as particularly despicable. In my case it's the ending of The killing joke, where Batman shares a laugh with the Joker just after that sick $%# crippled Barbara Gordon and tortured her father. Well you're in good company. Alan Moore doesn't think The Killing Joke is very good either. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2014 17:13:44 GMT -5
No worry; we probably all see certain scenes as particularly despicable. In my case it's the ending of The killing joke, where Batman shares a laugh with the Joker just after that sick $%# crippled Barbara Gordon and tortured her father. Well you're in good company. Alan Moore doesn't think The Killing Joke is very good either. I don't like Killing Joke, either, and for (among other reasons) that bit of the ending.... however, there is a reading of that last page which has Batman snapping at that point and killing the Joker rather than them just sharing the joke. |
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Post by berkley on Dec 6, 2014 18:30:36 GMT -5
No worry; we probably all see certain scenes as particularly despicable. In my case it's the ending of The killing joke, where Batman shares a laugh with the Joker just after that sick $%# crippled Barbara Gordon and tortured her father. Well you're in good company. Alan Moore doesn't think The Killing Joke is very good either. While, interestingly, Grant Morrison does, or such is the impression I've gotten from some of his comments on it. Sometimes I wonder if one of the sources of their feud, if you can call it that, is that Morrison just can't forgive Moore for dismissing The Killing Joke as just a Batman story, and not even a very good one. I'm being a little facetious there - I don't really think Morrison's got something against Moore just for that one statement - but I do think that, among other things, he resents Moore's occasional disparaging comments about superhero comics and that this one about the Killing Joke might be taken as representative of that whole attitude. |
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Post by fanboystranger on Dec 6, 2014 22:21:01 GMT -5
Well you're in good company. Alan Moore doesn't think The Killing Joke is very good either. While, interestingly, Grant Morrison does, or such is the impression I've gotten from some of his comments on it. Sometimes I wonder if one of the sources of their feud, if you can call it that, is that Morrison just can't forgive Moore for dismissing The Killing Joke as just a Batman story, and not even a very good one. I'm being a little facetious there - I don't really think Morrison's got something against Moore just for that one statement - but I do think that, among other things, he resents Moore's occasional disparaging comments about superhero comics and that this one about the Killing Joke might be taken as representative of that whole attitude. Well, their "feud" began a few years before that, but I think that Morrison does resent Moore saying things about superhero comics and his regular employers in particular. A lot of it is that Morrison has always wanted Moore's attention, but Moore doesn't give him it. (That's why I put "feud" in quotes-- until Moore's statement last year, it was pretty one-sided for 25 years.) It's similiar with Morrison and Michael Moorcock, but Moorcock put Grant down really hard several years ago, basically calling him a thief and plagiarist.
So, if Moore says that he doesn't like something, Morrison's probably going to say he likes it, just to be contrary and hope to grab daddy's attention.
(I love both gentlemen's work. Grant used to be very grating in interviews, but he's gotten a lot better since his wife started handling his publicity.)
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Post by berkley on Dec 6, 2014 22:54:26 GMT -5
While, interestingly, Grant Morrison does, or such is the impression I've gotten from some of his comments on it. Sometimes I wonder if one of the sources of their feud, if you can call it that, is that Morrison just can't forgive Moore for dismissing The Killing Joke as just a Batman story, and not even a very good one. I'm being a little facetious there - I don't really think Morrison's got something against Moore just for that one statement - but I do think that, among other things, he resents Moore's occasional disparaging comments about superhero comics and that this one about the Killing Joke might be taken as representative of that whole attitude. Well, their "feud" began a few years before that, but I think that Morrison does resent Moore saying things about superhero comics and his regular employers in particular. A lot of it is that Morrison has always wanted Moore's attention, but Moore doesn't give him it. (That's why I put "feud" in quotes-- until Moore's statement last year, it was pretty one-sided for 25 years.) It's similiar with Morrison and Michael Moorcock, but Moorcock put Grant down really hard several years ago, basically calling him a thief and plagiarist.
So, if Moore says that he doesn't like something, Morrison's probably going to say he likes it, just to be contrary and hope to grab daddy's attention.
(I love both gentlemen's work. Grant used to be very grating in interviews, but he's gotten a lot better since his wife started handling his publicity.)
Yes, I think you're right about all of that - although Moore went off the deep end himself a bit last year (I think it was) and made some really outrageous personal comments about Morrison, after all those years of more or less ignoring him. Like you, I admire the work of both these writers and tend not to pay too much attention to their personal animosity, regrettable though it may be. |
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Post by hondobrode on Dec 6, 2014 23:19:57 GMT -5
 I'd say that Watchmen was a better re-branding of the Charlton characters. |
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