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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 4, 2014 9:56:52 GMT -5
I'd love to see a Barry Windsor-Smith Bran Mak Muffin story...
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jul 4, 2014 10:40:12 GMT -5
Now all I can think about is a Travis Charest Astoria and Jaka.
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Post by gothos on Jul 9, 2014 15:31:01 GMT -5
One thing I liked about Sim was that I think he sincerely tried to move comics in the direction of literature. While I'll give underground comics their due in terms of entertainment, I don't think they offered much in the way of a good model for thoughtful work, meaning that I'm not big on a lot of the quasi-literary types influenced by the undergrounds, like Dan Clowes. I think Sim offered a better working model as to how to make literary comics, even if I didn't like every experiment he pursued-- like the so-called "Cerebusexegis," in which Cerebus interprets Biblical passages.
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Post by bashbash99 on Jul 14, 2014 19:36:39 GMT -5
I'm replying to Dupont 2005's post in the "six degrees of separation" thread to avoid posting off-topic there. Dupont2005:
My own introduction to Cerebus came in an Epic Illustrated that I had bought (because it had the 1st installment of "the last galactus story"). It was the 1st in a series of "young cerebus" shorts. One unusual aspect of the short was that in word balloons and thought bubbles, Sim used pictures instead of words to communicate what the characters were saying/thinking. I've run across this in a few other comics (some of Matt Wagner's Grendel stories come to mind) but of course its pretty atypical for Cerebus!
Anyhow based on this, I starting buying Cerebus which was in the midst of the Church and State storyline. I LOVED the art but was incredibly confused by the story, although it helped that the 1st few issues I bought were the Super-Sacred roach issues, and since I was buying Secret Wars and Dark Knight I could appreciate the parody elements to some degree. I eventually acquired the Swords of Cerebus volumes and bought the "phone books" for High Society and Church and State as they were released.
Unfortunately, I found the ending of Church and State somewhat anticlimactic and Jaka's Story turned me off even further so I stopped buying the floppies. I really did not enjoy Sim's text inserts. I tried to get back into it a few times with Guys and Mothers & Daughters but that was about it; I still love the art but never felt compelled to finish the series. I did find it hard to separate Sim's viewpoints (which I vehemently disagreed with) from his work. I think High Society and the 1st volume of Church and State were the best portion of the series, to me.
I'm not sure if the "Young Cerebus" shorts were ever collected but I'd enjoy reading the rest as I only have the one... did get a few more Epic Illustrated issues though, even though Byrne never finished (to my knowledge) the Galactus story, geez!
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jul 14, 2014 20:30:20 GMT -5
Yeah, the text pieces grew more and more irritating as time went by, to the verge of being nigh unreadable when Dave started expounding his conspiracy theories about the Hemingways, or when he'd go into some anti-feminist/humanist/atheist rant after finding religion.
But his Cerebus story was amazing, the art was glorious, and the lettering is still the best I've ever seen.
The only thing I regret is that the series as a whole, in hindsight, is pretty disjointed. The fist 200 issues slowly built up a complex plot involving politics, religion and prophecy that seemed to promise some amazing denouement; but then, after an incredible journey through space (with some of the best space art ever seen in a comic), we got... Nothing much. The last 100 issues consisted of story arcs about a few writers, about how Cerebus was clearly unable to have a healthy relationship with a woman, and finally about what Dave Sim thought of the book of Genesis. Good as some of these arcs were, they had little to do with the first 200 issues; these then seemed to have been a pointless exercise. Big buildup, little payoff.
One thing that did work for me, even if it was a risky gamble as far as storytelling goes, is that Cerebus' life is presented in such a way that his last decades occupy far less time than the first ones. Which, as an aging guy, I can guarantee reflects reality perfectly.
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Post by gothos on Aug 23, 2014 16:32:02 GMT -5
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Post by thwhtguardian on Aug 23, 2014 17:03:55 GMT -5
Cerebus, and by extension Dave Sim, is something I've been aware of for some time but never enough that I was actually interested in seeking it out to read. What's it like as a book and why does it make Sim revolutionary in the comics medium?
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,871
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Post by shaxper on Aug 23, 2014 17:22:11 GMT -5
Cerebus, and by extension Dave Sim, is something I've been aware of for some time but never enough that I was actually interested in seeking it out to read. What's it like as a book and why does it make Sim revolutionary in the comics medium? It's really challenging to explain without showing it. I wish I had the words. If it helps, here's what I wrote for the Top 100 Comic Book Sagas list: Also, the first dozen issues are a bit tedious. Initially, Sim intended Cerebus as little more than a parody of the Sword & Sorcery genre. The series doesn't really begin to find itself until the introduction of Lord Julius, and it's a slow and uneven build from there.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,871
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Post by shaxper on Aug 23, 2014 17:33:59 GMT -5
And here's a review I wrote of the series for Amazon.com:
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2014 0:20:36 GMT -5
Cerebus, and by extension Dave Sim, is something I've been aware of for some time but never enough that I was actually interested in seeking it out to read. What's it like as a book and why does it make Sim revolutionary in the comics medium? From what I understand it evolves a LOT as the series progresses. I've read the first 40 or so issues, and then a handful sporadically after that, but not many because I didn't want to spoil the story and plan on reading it in it's entirety. It starts as a completely typical barbarian spoof comic. It's smart, it's funny, it's well written and illustrated, but it's just a play on the popularity of that type of comic at the time. This lasts at least into issue 38 or so. The next issue I read was #55, and that issue is very... domestic I guess is the right word. Without the context of the previous issues I can't tell exactly what is going on, but it's mostly Cerebus on the couch complaining about everything in life. He's a normal guy in a normal home from what I can tell, no sword or battle helmet like the Cerebus I was introduced to in TMNT, but like I said, that issue takes place almost entirely in his living room so I don't have a lot of context to go by. A lot has changed from the earlier issues. The later issues are just completely weird.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Aug 24, 2014 9:45:50 GMT -5
Cerebus, and by extension Dave Sim, is something I've been aware of for some time but never enough that I was actually interested in seeking it out to read. What's it like as a book and why does it make Sim revolutionary in the comics medium? I have the first 111 issues in TPB form, and have enjoyed it up to what I have read. As the others have said, it starts out as a barbarian spoof with just Sim writing and drawing, the latter not being his strong suit. In fact, I wondered if I would be able to get through some 10 trades of Cerebus if this was the art. For me it wasn't until Gerhard joined that the art not only wasn't average it was downing right _____ gorgeous. For the me, the stories are all the things my folks sheltered me from. Sim is my parents anti-christ. So even though I only started reading what I have of Cerebus 3-4 years ago, it still fascinates me to see polar extreme views on things in life that are usually scared or taboo. Cause for me a view, no matter how much one spouts it, is just a view, and not something that should be stifled. So, so far as I have read, this view of religion and politics and women and all the things people hate Sim for, are what make the reading interesting for me. He's not a cookie cutout himself, and so neither is his work. Now as far as the posters that have read the entire work, I can't agree or disagree that the latter portion isn't as good as the beginning, but I hope to rectify that soon, and buy some more of the TPB. There is still parody too, with regards to superhero comics of the time he was writing it. Including one character in Marvel that was all over the Marvel Universe. The parody is so blatant that I cannot believe it wasn't a copyright infringement.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2014 9:53:59 GMT -5
it still fascinates me to see polar extreme views on things in life that are usually scared or taboo. You'll be wanting to look into the oeuvre of the sf writer Vox Day (Theodore Beale), then. He hates the fact that women are allowed to vote & regards people who aren't white as basically subhuman. Sounds like something you'd find utterly fascinating.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Aug 24, 2014 10:06:04 GMT -5
it still fascinates me to see polar extreme views on things in life that are usually scared or taboo. You'll be wanting to look into the oeuvre of the sf writer Vox Day (Theodore Beale), then. He hates the fact that women are allowed to vote & regards people who aren't white as basically subhuman. Sounds like something you'd find utterly fascinating. Might be, I dunno, never heard of the guy. But you posting this does remind me that there is still that novel of Phillip K Dick that I need to read. Not that I am trying to anger you by lumping a writer you like with those you don't, but my connection, he would also have been something my folks would have censored from me. Addiction is another fascination I have reading about. Especially when, like PKD, Bukowski, Henry Miller, etc, the character in the story is an addict just as the author is. And I have read PKD struggled with several addictions. I just have to remember what novel I read the synopsis of that sparked my interest in him.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2014 10:12:39 GMT -5
Possibly A Scanner Darkly. That's the one that deals most explicitly with drugs. Several others involve the subject as well, most notably (off the top of my head, anyway) The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch & Now Wait for Last Year.
Not sure I'd classify PKD as an addict per se, assuming as I do that it's possible to abuse a substance without actually being physically/psychologically hooked on it. Probably a matter of semantics.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Aug 24, 2014 10:27:21 GMT -5
Possibly A Scanner Darkly. That's the one that deals most explicitly with drugs. Several others involve the subject as well, most notably (off the top of my head, anyway) The Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch & Now Wait for Last Year. Not sure I'd classify PKD as an addict per se, assuming as I do that it's possible to abuse a substance without actually being physically/psychologically hooked on it. Probably a matter of semantics. Yes it's Scanner Darkly. I need to check if the library has that. It sounds real interesting. Especially that wikipedia tags it as a semi-autobiographical books, which tends to be the style some of the above mentioned authors I like write. And while it may be a different topic, being one myself, I am not sure which is first or worse, the physical or the psychological or if they are one in the same, but it is certainly a interesting topic to discuss.
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