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Post by MRPs_Missives on Jun 21, 2024 12:27:05 GMT -5
Are the stories or storytelling better because the boots have laces? And i am not asking for 2 pages a day, just a 20 page comic in a month, so that there isn't a fill-in artist after 3 issues.
Sure you can get it, just have an inker like Colletta come in to make up the time needed to meet the deadlines. It won't affect the quality of the pages at all will it? -M |
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Post by kirby101 on Jun 21, 2024 14:48:54 GMT -5
Are the stories or storytelling better because the boots have laces? And i am not asking for 2 pages a day, just a 20 page comic in a month, so that there isn't a fill-in artist after 3 issues.
Here's the thing, it's what the audience expects and it's lack leads to customer dissatisfaction and loss of what remains of your audience, therefore, it is what editors demand if they are going to hire you. That's the market reality whether old timers like it or not or how much we try to justify or rationalize our denial and curmudgeonliness. It may not offer "storytelling benefits" in our eyes, but it offers a level of verisimilitude that contemporary audiences demand/need for them to be able to suspend their disbelief and buy into the comic fantasy of super-heroes. Do enhances graphics improve actual gameplay over 8 bit graphics in video games-in some ways yes but not necessarily, but modern game consumers demand that level of realism in the graphics of their games. The same is true with modern game consumers. Same parallel with audience expectations in film compared to stop motion animation or some other practical effects in films and television. So while old school fans can't see the point of it (because it doesn't jibe with their sensibilities), there is a point and its rooted in the fact that time has passed and consumer expectations have changed. One may not personally agree with the changed standard, but that doesn't make them any less of a market reality. And it just means that some (older) consumers are out of step with the current market realities. Not saying one is better or worse, just that there is a reality that makes the new standards relevant to what level fo commercial success they can achieve. -M I wonder, comic sales are pretty low these days, do changes in the artist every 4 issues affect sales as well. Do people drop series when the artist they first bought it for is gone? |
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Post by tonebone on Jun 21, 2024 15:08:43 GMT -5
 -M Give me a good story with good characters that takes more than 10 minutes to read, with no laces, please. |
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Jun 21, 2024 15:39:54 GMT -5
The problem with comic sales these days is "hardcore" readers found any and every reason to bail when the story or creative teams catered to their tastes after the market as a whole catered to them with the direct market and forsook the discovery markets and casual readers to try to keep appealing to the hardcore readers, who bailed anyways. The problem isn't people leaving, people have always left reading comics, the problem is getting replacement readers, which is nearly impossible after the market shifted to cater to the long term readers who found a reason to leave anyways. Continuing to cater to the tastes of readers whose tastes are 20-30 out of date and likely to age out or die sooner rather than later is not going to close the gap between those leaving and those coming. Continuing to cleave to monthly periodicals in the direct market is the biggest obstacle not whether the boots have laces or not, but drawing in a style that was popular before most of the current demographics who could become new readers is only going to exacerbate the problem and do nothing to solve it.
Hardcore readers find all kinds of reasons to ignore good stories with good characters that take more 10 minutes to read all the time. Usually because it contradicted some story churned out to meet a deadline 20 years ago that they care about and no one else does. But they're happy to tell you they are loyal customers who deserve to be catered to and that everything that is wrong with the industry is because it stopped catering to their tastes. Repeatedly. Their denial that they are too old to be the target demographic anymore is strong. Obsolescence seems to breed denial.
Everything in the world would be right again if people would just go back to doing things the way I liked them when I was 12, 18, 25 or whatever is a terrible coping mechanism to deal with the fact the world keeps changing and its not going to stop changing. And comics (and all media) are going to be part of that change. And mistaking preferences of a previous generation as some kind of objective standard of quality or as a de facto way that things should be done only makes things so much worse. It's hubris pure and simple.
-M
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Post by driver1980 on Jun 26, 2024 3:29:44 GMT -5
Secret Wars #6 went on sale 40 years ago today. And here’s the UK reprint, featuring a Corn Flakes competition: 
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Post by Batflunkie on Jun 26, 2024 11:49:52 GMT -5
Secret Wars #6 went on sale 40 years ago today. And here’s the UK reprint, featuring a Corn Flakes competition: Man I wish comics over here came with free prizes... |
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Post by MWGallaher on Jun 26, 2024 11:55:01 GMT -5
I can immediately recognize who drew the 1978 boots. Can hard-core readers of the 2010's say the same for the laced-up 2011 boots?
I value distinctive style over realistic detail. To be fair, the artist of the 2011 boots might be (and probably is) highly distinctive and identifiable by a more up-to-date art spotter than I am, given a full page or panel sample to go by, and I admit I can appreciate some highly detailed comic art even if it's not equally highly individualistic.
But now I'm wondering how many 70's artists I could identify by just a close-up of boots...
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 26, 2024 12:24:44 GMT -5
I can immediately recognize who drew the 1978 boots. Can hard-core readers of the 2010's say the same for the laced-up 2011 boots? I value distinctive style over realistic detail. To be fair, the artist of the 2011 boots might be (and probably is) highly distinctive and identifiable by a more up-to-date art spotter than I am, given a full page or panel sample to go by, and I admit I can appreciate some highly detailed comic art even if it's not equally highly individualistic. But now I'm wondering how many 70's artists I could identify by just a close-up of boots... I can tell you that it is a military image, based on the style of the boots and the way the trousers are bloused in them....though not a Marine....unless the artist screwed up. |
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Post by tonebone on Jun 26, 2024 12:26:39 GMT -5
Secret Wars #6 went on sale 40 years ago today. And here’s the UK reprint, featuring a Corn Flakes competition: Man I wish comics over here came with free prizes... I wish cereal still came with free prizes.... |
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Post by codystarbuck on Jun 26, 2024 13:55:39 GMT -5
Man I wish comics over here came with free prizes... I wish cereal still came with free prizes.... What, Type 2 Diabetes isn't enough? |
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Post by Batflunkie on Jun 26, 2024 14:00:39 GMT -5
I wish cereal still came with free prizes.... What, Type 2 Diabetes isn't enough? I hear you get readers and an enlarged prostate with Oat Bran  |
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Post by rberman on Jun 27, 2024 14:14:41 GMT -5
Are the stories or storytelling better because the boots have laces?
And i am not asking for 2 pages a day, just a 20 page comic in a month, so that there isn't a fill-in artist after 3 issues.
Stories can be great with extremely rudimentary art. Just like a song can be great with lyrics that were improvised in the recording studio. But there's also a place for thoughtful lyrics that took a lifetime to craft, and there's a place for painstakingly rendered art. |
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Post by tonebone on Jun 27, 2024 14:21:32 GMT -5
I wish cereal still came with free prizes.... What, Type 2 Diabetes isn't enough? I have Type 2 Diabetes. It had nothing to do with cereal. |
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Post by kirby101 on Jun 27, 2024 15:00:13 GMT -5
Are the stories or storytelling better because the boots have laces?
And i am not asking for 2 pages a day, just a 20 page comic in a month, so that there isn't a fill-in artist after 3 issues.
Stories can be great with extremely rudimentary art. Just like a song can be great with lyrics that were improvised in the recording studio. But there's also a place for thoughtful lyrics that took a lifetime to craft, and there's a place for painstakingly rendered art. Absolutely. It just doesn't work for a book people are putting out monthly if you only get two or three issues before a fill in. Do the fine work for a GN or limited series. |
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Post by MRPs_Missives on Jun 27, 2024 15:05:06 GMT -5
Stories can be great with extremely rudimentary art. Just like a song can be great with lyrics that were improvised in the recording studio. But there's also a place for thoughtful lyrics that took a lifetime to craft, and there's a place for painstakingly rendered art. Absolutely. It just doesn't work for a book people are putting out monthly if you only get two or three issues before a fill in. Do the fine work for a GN or limited series. Or you know maybe find a publishing model that lets your creators do their best stuff and doesn't foist lesser quality products on your consumers because of an arbitrary deadline. Monthly periodicals with their incumbent deadlines and need for fill ins (or in the past inventory stories and reprints as well) are a vestige of an old market reality that is no longer true, and is only kept around as a vestige of nostalgia. It is an obstacle to growing the audience, an obstacle for creators to produce their best stuff, and a hindrance to the medium evolving and becoming all it can be. It's had its time, but its time is done and the powers that be in comic publishing need to read the writing on the wall and realize that. The future of comics and the growth market for comics lies in other formats and other publishing models. -M |
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