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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 8, 2022 6:47:45 GMT -5
Episode 3 replaces John Constantine with Johanna, which is for the best since cross-overs might confuse new viewers or distract from the main story. However, I was annoyed by some aspects of the reinterpretation. {Spoiler: Click to show}The Newcastle botched exorcism, which weighed so heavily on John's conscience and was the cause of his recurring nightmares, was entirely his fault. It was because of his hubris that little Astra ended in Hell, and the associated guilt drove him crazy for several years.
Here, Johanna is not guilty of anything, apart from not making sure that no one is going to do anything incredibly stupid behind her back. She was doing a good job of getting rid of a demon when Astra, typical cliché driven by a plot imperative, stumbles onto the scene just in time to be red-shirted. The following nightmares endured by Johanna carry a lot less weight, emotionally speaking, than if she had been the cause of the child's death.
Likewise, Johanna's apparently caring for Dream's well-being (when she tells Matthew to watch over him) is both out of character and surprising, considering they exchanged something like a dozen sentences and did not bond emotionally at all.
Re. Newcastle: if it was a John Constantine show, I definitely would want the full story as original told, but for a standalone series where they couldn't use John himself, I don't mind things being streamlined and made less complex (they are already introducing many characters and concepts). See also Matthew's backstory as just being a bad person, but not having the whole Swamp Thing links.
Agreed on the streamlining, but if someone must be beset by nightmares for years on end, I'd expect it to be for a better reason than "one day, I didn't manage to save a civilian who threw themselves into danger despite my strict instructions". The original version of the story isn't more complex; it's just more emotionally poignant because it was John's cockiness, just as much as the original summoning, that damned Astra.
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 8, 2022 10:22:27 GMT -5
Watched through episode 4, last night. As I thought, context greatly improved what I saw in the clip of the encounter with Lucifer. I still think the acting by Gwendoline Christie is too theatrical; but, within the overall context of hell and the lead in to those scenes, it worked better than in an excised clip. Seeing Sanjeev Bhaskar and Meera Syal had me waiting for Cain to say that Morpheus is Indian and for Smita Smitten, Showbiz Kitten, to dish on the Endless. If later episodes have Nina Wadia and Kulvinder Ghir, we could have a full Goodness Gracious Me reunion.
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Post by Dizzy D on Aug 8, 2022 12:31:40 GMT -5
Watched through episode 4, last night. As I thought, context greatly improved what I saw in the clip of the encounter with Lucifer. I still think the acting by Gwendoline Christie is too theatrical; but, within the overall context of hell and the lead in to those scenes, it worked better than in an excised clip. Seeing Sanjeev Bhaskar and Meera Syal had me waiting for Cain to say that Morpheus is Indian and for Smita Smitten, Showbiz Kitten, to dish on the Endless. If later episodes have Nina Wadia and Kulvinder Ghir, we could have a full Goodness Gracious Me reunion. If you're on episode 4, you have already seen Nina Wadia
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 8, 2022 20:31:15 GMT -5
Watched through episode 4, last night. As I thought, context greatly improved what I saw in the clip of the encounter with Lucifer. I still think the acting by Gwendoline Christie is too theatrical; but, within the overall context of hell and the lead in to those scenes, it worked better than in an excised clip. Seeing Sanjeev Bhaskar and Meera Syal had me waiting for Cain to say that Morpheus is Indian and for Smita Smitten, Showbiz Kitten, to dish on the Endless. If later episodes have Nina Wadia and Kulvinder Ghir, we could have a full Goodness Gracious Me reunion. If you're on episode 4, you have already seen Nina Wadia Wait, one of the Fates? I thought the person looked familiar; but couldn't place them (the older one, too), but didn't recall her name. Meera Syal and Sanjeev Bhaskar I have seen in more things and their names are better embedded in my head. I had to look up the other cast names for Nina and Kulvinder. Didn't put it together. I was actually going to check the cast listing over, before watching more, as that keeps happening. It took me a minute to be sure that John Dee's mother was Joley Richardson (she always resembled Natasha and I watched her in Maybe Baby {aka Inconceivable}, with Hugh Laurie). David Thewliss I know from Prime Suspect 3 (does he ever get to play a normal, well adjusted character?) I stumbled across Goodness Gracious Me on Youtube, before the BBC caught on that it was being pirated there and clamped down; so, I got to watch the whole series. Some really funny stuff, especially "Going for an English, " where most of the cast are supposed to be an obnoxious group in an "English restaurant." The competitive mothers and the "check please" character are also great. I have also seen a couple of the Kumars at Number 42, but not the whole series.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Aug 9, 2022 9:47:13 GMT -5
Up to episode four.. I didn't love the character design for Lucifer... the white dress and black wings didn't work for me, and Lucifer was far too formal and stuffy for me taste. I did really like the battle though, just as a pictured they would do it in live action, very cool.
Its funny which things jump out at me, and which don't.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 10, 2022 20:10:30 GMT -5
"The sound of her wings" stuck pretty closely to the comic, and was all the better for it. I thought the actress playing Death got just the right mix of whimsy, kindness and seriousness, while the developing friendship between Dream and Hob Gadling was even more touching than in the book!
Johanna Constantine is also a serious scene stealer! Let's not wait until Thermidor to see her again!
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Post by wildfire2099 on Aug 10, 2022 21:10:16 GMT -5
yeah, she was good... too nice for what I picture the character to be, but definitely grabs your attention!
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Post by thwhtguardian on Aug 12, 2022 11:53:57 GMT -5
"The sound of her wings" stuck pretty closely to the comic, and was all the better for it. I thought the actress playing Death got just the right mix of whimsy, kindness and seriousness, while the developing friendship between Dream and Hob Gadling was even more touching than in the book! Johanna Constantine is also a serious scene stealer! Let's not wait until Thermidor to see her again! Yeah, I really loved Death and Johanna was great too.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,860
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Post by shaxper on Aug 12, 2022 12:30:10 GMT -5
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Post by thwhtguardian on Aug 12, 2022 12:54:09 GMT -5
It's pretty interesting that this thread got noticed.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Aug 12, 2022 13:14:02 GMT -5
So far my favorite episode was the Hob Gadling episode, their relationship was fantastically done so that when Dream finally met back up with Hob and called him friend I had an ear to ear grin.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Aug 12, 2022 18:36:56 GMT -5
Was anyone else a little sad to get so little from Merv? Hopefully he plays a larger role in the next season.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 12, 2022 21:47:02 GMT -5
Was anyone else a little sad to get so little from Merv? Hopefully he plays a larger role in the next season. He wasn't seen that often in the early issues, so I'm hopeful for the future.
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Post by The Captain on Aug 13, 2022 12:46:50 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I haven’t seen any episodes due to being on vacation, although I fully intend to dive in possibly as early as this evening. On the plus side, without the distraction of TV for nine days, I was able to read through 2/3 of American Gods, so I have that going for me.
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 13, 2022 23:21:56 GMT -5
Finished 5 and 6, this evening.
One of the reasons why I was slow to read Sandman was that I am not a horror reader. I was prone to conjuring nightmares, as a child, thanks to a vivid imagination. Not constantly, but often inspired by things I had seen and horrific images unsettled me easily. Sleeping Beauty scared the fertilizer out of me and I could not even look at the image of Maleficent, on the record we had, from the film. So, I tended not to read horror comics or novels or short stories. It was a long time before I could watch remotely scary movies, such as the Universal monster films.
The early issues of The Sandman were very much layered in horror and that didn't attract it to me, though I liked Sam Keith's work. Gaiman I had little experience with, apart from Black Orchid and it was not what I really wanted it to be. So, I am less enamored over those first two arcs, then later ones. I enjoyed the series more when Gaiman incorporated more fantasy elements. Then again, maybe I started to see beyond the terror and enjoy the mythology, more, though those first two arcs are still not favorites.
Episode 5, with John Dee and the diner, was a large reason why the first arc was distasteful to me. I find enough terror and madness in the world that I don't care much for it in my entertainment. The manipulation of the people in the diner swings from shock to insight to terror. The characters made it different enough to finish the story. The episode adapts it well, though I think it is still too much shock value, for my tastes. I do think the removal of the comic book conventions improves John Dee, making him scarier, as the visual of him in the comic is too steeped in horror comics. It is too removed from human, so he falls into the category of monster, which means he is outside. Thewliss is very inside humanity, a damaged mind and soul, with powers too great for him to handle. The human psyche ends up more terrifying, expressed through him. Well done, but not something I want to revisit, again and again.
Episode 6 does a damn near perfect job of capturing the story and Gaiman's concept of Death. Given his collaboration with Terry Pratchett I sometimes wonder if Pratchett's Death influenced his own, or just similar minds or similar influences. I find Pratchett more profound, but Gaiman's more comforting. I think that is the difference in their writing, too. Pratchett is far funnier; but, I am always amazed at how profound his work is, once it really hits me, in the story. With Gaiman, it is very showy and artistic, but very much about the language and the technique. I think Pratchett gets to the core of his themes better.
Still, this story and Death are somewhat special, to me. I had a friend and colleague, named Jason, who was a massive Neil Gaiman and Sandman fan. We shared an enthusiasm for the series (once I got past my initial impressions and actually started reading the books, since it was hard to jump on, in mid-arc). Jason adored Gaiman's writing far more than I, though Gaiman quickly became a favorite. Some years ago, now, Jason had a numbness in his arm and went to seek medical treatment, believing he had a pinched nerve. He was given a diagnosis of cancer. It was bad; his body riddled with it. He went through treatment, but it was too advanced. Jason was the sweetest, kindest, most gentle person you could meet, and he wasn't always treated well, because of it. A marriage broke up because his wife felt he wasn't assertive enough, or passionate enough, or whatever, enough. However, I ended up interviewing someone to work in Barnes & Noble's receiving department, a young woman with Bettie Page bangs. I recommended hiring her and she went to work there, with Jason. They got along fabulously and soon started dating and eventually married and had a son, Max. They were truly happy. And then, their world collapsed. Jason was close with Max and he shared his love of Gaiman and Star Wars and comics with Max and he soaked it up. Then Jason's time came. We all gathered near the carillon at a park and had a memorial service for Jason, as he was not religious. The booklet for the service featured quotes from Sandman. Max was one of the first speakers, breaking down about how he missed his dad. We all wept. But, at the same time, we smiled, as we remembered our friend and his smile, his friendship and his enthusiasm. The words from Death gave me comfort, as I read, "You got what everyone gets; you got a lifetime."
I shared those words with my brother, when my father was found to have an iliac aneurism and my brother was worried about the simple procedure to put in a stent. I reassured him about what I had read of the procedure, but also reminded him our parents were aging and closer to the end than the beginning. We would have to face a world without them, someday. I shared that quote and it gave me comfort, though I can't speak for my brother. The procedure was a minor outpatient event, until my father's lung collapsed, during the procedure. The doctor's were able to reinflate it and he came through it; but, it seemed to kickstart breathing issues. he had been diagnosed with pulmonary fibrosis, after a chest X-ray, some years before, but it wasn't actively affecting his lungs. This changed it and breathing became more difficult. He had to start using an inhaler, then oxygen, then a ventilator. He did not wish to remain on forced ventilators and was on a form of a CPAP, but it was a struggle. Finally, my mom made the decision to take him off of it and let him go, in peace.
Those words came to me again.
In 2019, my mom's liver was causing her kidney's to fail and she died. Gaiman's words helped me again.
I like to imagine a world where a bright and lively young woman comes to collect people and shepherd them into the next phase, though I don't believe such a thing exists. However, it gives comfort, at the end and it is enough.
The episode captured that element beautifully and the clip of it is the main reason I gave this a chance, after being less enthused by the clip of the exchange with Lucifer. If they could get Death right, then the rest would fall into place, maybe slightly different, but with the essence.
As for the rest? The Hob Galding storyline was good, though I have to say I was just taking it in, until the 1989 timeline and I heard Fine Young Cannibals and started smiling. That had me back to that time frame, when I was fresh out of college, and glimpsed the first issue. FYC is one of my favorites and the 80s era of music my favorite period. I was right back there, with them, though I did have to kibbitz some of the wardrobe. Close, but no cigar. Same for some of the hair. Still, you forget how long ago it was and I suspect half the people involved weren't born or too young to have an impression.
Never thought I'd feel like the 80s was a long time past. Then again, I never contemplated hearing celebrations of pop culture items, at 50, which started when I did.
Now, more horror. I didn't like the Corinthian story, as it was so dark. But, we will see.
I still think some of the cast haven't learned to act naturally and some of it feels too artificial; but, the right characters are portrayed well and the emotional beats are there and the key themes of the story, which helps accept the artifice.
David Thewliss was great, as I knew he would be.
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