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Post by mikelmidnight on Oct 23, 2023 11:07:42 GMT -5
Putting aside the consequences of Crisis, in terms of the series itself, I loved the art. But none of the story sticks with me other than some Monitor/Anti-Monitor thing, lots of characters showing up and many getting wiped out, and Flash and Supergirl dying. I don't know, did it really have a story beyond that other than setting the stage for continuity resetting and reboots? I concede that in retrospect it's aged badly. But reading it when it came out, it felt like the culmination of decades of storylines, and with characters like Supergirl and the Flash dying it felt like a big deal. I was mainly reading indie comics by that point but I was enthralled by Crisis purely for the vast scope and the sense that anything could happed.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2023 11:13:37 GMT -5
Putting aside the consequences of Crisis, in terms of the series itself, I loved the art. But none of the story sticks with me other than some Monitor/Anti-Monitor thing, lots of characters showing up and many getting wiped out, and Flash and Supergirl dying. I don't know, did it really have a story beyond that other than setting the stage for continuity resetting and reboots? I concede that in retrospect it's aged badly. But reading it when it came out, it felt like the culmination of decades of storylines, and with characters like Supergirl and the Flash dying it felt like a big deal. I was mainly reading indie comics by that point but I was enthralled by Crisis purely for the vast scope and the sense that anything could happed. Totally fair, I appreciate that counter perspective!
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Post by driver1980 on May 30, 2024 8:48:16 GMT -5
Were there any unresolved plot threads and loose ends from the pre-Crisis multiverse that were never fully addressed or concluded in post-Crisis continuity?
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Post by zaku on Jun 1, 2024 3:57:25 GMT -5
Were there any unresolved plot threads and loose ends from the pre-Crisis multiverse that were never fully addressed or concluded in post-Crisis continuity? A lot of them I suppose!!! For example, I remember that during the late pre-Crisis period Perry White was suffering from some form of dementia, but it was presented as a mystery. Obviously with the reboot there was no conclusion to this story.
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Post by nairb73 on Jun 30, 2024 14:43:26 GMT -5
Were there any unresolved plot threads and loose ends from the pre-Crisis multiverse that were never fully addressed or concluded in post-Crisis continuity? A lot of them I suppose!!! For example, I remember that during the late pre-Crisis period Perry White was suffering from some form of dementia, but it was presented as a mystery. Obviously with the reboot there was no conclusion to this story. World's Finest Comics, in its last few years, was very much 'in its own world', ignoring the other 'Super-Bat-titles'. This meant that, in 1985, Bruce Wayne's casual dating of a Gotham City TV news reporter was abruptly dropped so that Supes and Bats could 'split up' in the last issue.
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Post by zaku on Jul 1, 2024 6:43:57 GMT -5
A lot of them I suppose!!! For example, I remember that during the late pre-Crisis period Perry White was suffering from some form of dementia, but it was presented as a mystery. Obviously with the reboot there was no conclusion to this story. World's Finest Comics, in its last few years, was very much 'in its own world', ignoring the other 'Super-Bat-titles'. This meant that, in 1985, Bruce Wayne's casual dating of a Gotham City TV news reporter was abruptly dropped so that Supes and Bats could 'split up' in the last issue. I thought about it a bit and I think that the only characters who may have had problems with suspended plots are: 1) Superman (because he had a total reboot) 2) Some Earth-2 characters (because deleted by Crisis). For Batman, I believe that a few issues before Crisis had already made a "clean sweep" (I kindly ask shaxper for confirmation). Wonder Woman, from what I can read online, there were no particular unresolved plots. For everyone else: sometimes it's interesting how for many characters Crisis has changed practically absolutely nothing. For example, Green Lantern, Green Arrow, and Atom continued their adventures as if nothing had happened. Yes, part of their continuity was retroactively changed, but honestly I can't think of any egregious cases of plots left unresolved by Crisis. I ask those with more knowledge than me!
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,514
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Post by shaxper on Jul 1, 2024 7:30:22 GMT -5
World's Finest Comics, in its last few years, was very much 'in its own world', ignoring the other 'Super-Bat-titles'. This meant that, in 1985, Bruce Wayne's casual dating of a Gotham City TV news reporter was abruptly dropped so that Supes and Bats could 'split up' in the last issue. I thought about it a bit and I think that the only characters who may have had problems with suspended plots are: 1) Superman (because he had a total reboot) 2) Some Earth-2 characters (because deleted by Crisis). For Batman, I believe that a few issues before Crisis had already made a "clean sweep" (I kindly ask shaxper for confirmation). Batman #392. It was later undone and quietly returned to its previous continuity before clearly implying another reset was coming next issue at the end of Batman #400, and then Batman #404 and #408 both reset the continuity again, all while Mike W. Barr's Detective Comics run still featured a Pre-Crisis Catwoman. We don't really get a consistent Post-Crisis Batman continuity until Batman #426 (A Death in The Family) and then only because the storyline was a big enough deal that it couldn't be dismissed, requiring ensuing writers to begin maintaining a sense of continuity.
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Post by nairb73 on Jul 4, 2024 18:47:57 GMT -5
And as far as Superman was concerned,there were no 'suspended storylines', only the following subplots that disapeared(in addition to the Perry White Alzheimers story):
Superman and Lois had broken up in a 1983 storyline,and Lois had only recently returned from a stretch of overseas assignments.
Jimmy Olsen and Lucy Lane became engaged,and Lana Lang revealed that, she had lost a husband and a child(both murdered by a terror group in Italy, during the long stretch that Lana had been absent from the Superman titles, prior to her return to Metropolis during Martin Pasko's writing stint, in 1977. (The Jimmy and Lana stuff came from Mindy Newell's Lois Lane mini-series, scheduled for 1984, but,due to those developments, postponed until the very end of 'pre-Byrne' stories(two issues that went on sale the same months as Alan Moore's 'farewell'stories).
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Post by swansong on Jul 5, 2024 3:51:10 GMT -5
In the last two years or so of pre-Crisis Superman, they only published stories that had been somewhere in the drawer and did not care about continuity. A lot of these issues were just total crap, but for example, Maggin wrote some of his best stories during that time. It's really sad that the Crisis was effectively also the end of Maggin's comics career. Later, he was an editor at some title, and rumor has it he got fired because he inserted a reference to Superman robots. I don't know, lol. When he was just coming into his own, his ideas for Superman were never really accepted by other writers. Bates's Luthor and his Luthor are basically two different persons. Maggin set up a plot thread of Luthor becoming a good guy and founding a company—LexCorp—but DC went with the mundane Byrne-Man instead.
In the early '80s, there had been some attempts to modernize Superman anyway, with Wolfman's stories, the new Brainiac, new Luthor, and stuff like the Phantom Zone mini-series, which was very eerie and dark for pre-Crisis Superman. But continuity-wise and editorially, there was no real coordination. Perhaps Julie Schwartz was too old-school by that point and out of touch with modern comics. Many Superman comics released in 1983 could have also been released in 1973.
And keep in mind, DC Comics Present, World's Finest... not really connected to the main comic lines. Ambush Bug was appearing a lot in the last pre-crisis issues, IIRC.
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Post by mikelmidnight on Jul 5, 2024 12:10:26 GMT -5
In the early '80s, there had been some attempts to modernize Superman anyway, with Wolfman's stories, the new Brainiac, new Luthor, and stuff like the Phantom Zone mini-series, which was very eerie and dark for pre-Crisis Superman. But continuity-wise and editorially, there was no real coordination. Perhaps Julie Schwartz was too old-school by that point and out of touch with modern comics. Many Superman comics released in 1983 could have also been released in 1973. Mid-80s Superman comics gave one a very weird, disjunctive feeling, as one got a sense sometimes that they were trying for a more serious, contemporary tone, but ... the Superman Emergency Squad were still in-continuity, yanno?
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