shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 22, 2015 16:29:38 GMT -5
Edit: oops CB (and others) beat me to it, teach me to reply before reading the rest of the thread. Sorry. Just to be technical-The Giffen/DeMatteis League started post-Legends (they made their debut in Legends #5 or 6 iirc)and not immediately following Crisis or as a result of Crisis. So the remnants of the Detroit League (Batman had returned to lead it by then I believe)was the post Crisis League and the one that took part in the events of Crisis. The 4 part end of the Justice League arc (or mini-series within a series as it was being called in the day) left the DCU without a Justice League for a few months real time (and the lack of a League was a plot point in Legends). This evolution of hte LEague was also how it was depicted in the Wolfman/Perez History of the DCU mini the defined the post-Crisis DCU f memory serves, so that Detroit League is very much the post-Crisis League. That said, if you wanted to just do a thread featuring the DeMatteis/Giffen incarnation of it, that's cool, just change the intended title for the thread from Post-Crisis to reflect what you actually want to do. It's as easy as knocking out Guy Gardner with one punch  -M The problem here is that incorporating Justice League Detroit into such a thread requires acknowledging the Pre-Crisis continuity that stretch was built upon. Would reading History of the DCU mini in lieu of the Justice League Detroit run solve the problem adequately for the purposes of the thread I'm envisioning? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 16:33:18 GMT -5
At most you would get a panel or a page on the JLD team in History, but it would give you the context of where they fit in the Post-Crisis DCU milieu, at least at the start. I think the Wolfman/Perez series was meant to sort of be a universe Bible for fans and creators but never actually got used that way for very long as changes kept rolling through that contradicted or altered what Wolfman and Perez had laid out.
I think if you want to do a JL thread on the Giffen/DeMatteis era, you should just start with JL #1 or the Legends series to see how they formed and their actual first appearance.
-M
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 22, 2015 16:35:16 GMT -5
And yet titles like Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, and Justice League accounted for a larger percentage of sales and a larger percentage of public perception than the others, so it's not as simple as saying most of them were, but only those four weren't. It's been years since I read them, so I have almost no memory, but weren't there issues that depicted both the Pre and Post Crisis origins for key heroes? I distinctly recall having one that told only the Golden Age origin of Batman, for example. Public perception and sales, maybe, but I'm talking about actual numbers of books and characters; Batman may have sold more copies than Firestorm, Green Lantern, Outsiders and Infinity Inc combined, but he's still in the minority, there. I disagree with how you are envisioning a majority and a minority. I think public perception and actual copies of books sold count a whole lot more in that regard than percentage of titles that did one thing or another. Most people reading DC books did not see most of the titles continue without any kind of reboot because most DC readers were purchasing Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman and Justice League, but were only purchasing two or three of the other books you are describing. Ultimately, this entire debate seems pointless to me, but I think you are choosing some arbitrary conditions for declaring your point of view correct, here. I'm out of my element on this one (which is how we got to this debate in the first place) but when I was reading the Giffen Dematteis League stories a long while back, I don't recall any but the most vague of references to a previous team existing before them. It may have taken DC a while to pull off the reboot (just as it did with Batman, which really wasn't in Post-Crisis mode yet by the time of Legends either), but the Giffen/Dematteis League did seem like a pretty solid reset. Thanks for the clarification. I really do need to recollect that run. Never had them all, but I think I only own two issues these days. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 22, 2015 16:38:04 GMT -5
I think if you want to do a JL thread on the Giffen/DeMatteis era, you should just start with JL #1 or the Legends series to see how they formed and their actual first appearance. -M Sigh. I really tried to avoid reading Legends in both my Superman and Batman review threads, but it looks like I'm not going to dodge it a third time. |
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Post by Action Ace on Dec 22, 2015 17:21:51 GMT -5
The Post Crisis JLA continuity reset that puts Black Canary in Wonder Woman's place is in Secret Origins #32 with art by a young up and comer named Eric Shanower.
I think you can skip Legends and go straight to Justice League #1. It is one of the best #1s of a comic series I've ever read. What happens is that Justice League Detroit is destroyed during the Legends crossover with a couple of members dying. A team (an AWESWOME one) comes together during the conclusion of Legends and Blue Beetle suggest the team pick up the now unused name of Justice League. Then Guy shows up at an empty JLA HQ at the start of Justice League #1 and we're off.
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 22, 2015 17:22:47 GMT -5
It's as easy as knocking out Guy Gardner with one punch -M I really can't stand Guy Gardner so I should have enjoyed the "one-punch" moment. But I always thought that bit was stupid rather than amusing. I was surprised when it became one of the top two or three moments that defined the New Justice League. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 22, 2015 17:25:50 GMT -5
I think if you want to do a JL thread on the Giffen/DeMatteis era, you should just start with JL #1 or the Legends series to see how they formed and their actual first appearance. -M Sigh. I really tried to avoid reading Legends in both my Superman and Batman review threads, but it looks like I'm not going to dodge it a third time. It's totally OK with me if you skip Legends! |
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Post by Action Ace on Dec 22, 2015 17:29:39 GMT -5
I voted Superman since we're entering a high point for the character and you can catch up to the Batman thread. It might be fun to review the Death/Funeral/Return books at the same time as KnightFall/Quest/Takes Pawn.
JLI would be a good thread too.
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Post by Action Ace on Dec 22, 2015 17:30:52 GMT -5
Sigh. I really tried to avoid reading Legends in both my Superman and Batman review threads, but it looks like I'm not going to dodge it a third time. It's totally OK with me if you skip Legends! I can't say much for the story, but it is my all time favorite art job by John Byrne. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 22, 2015 18:00:55 GMT -5
You know the way people feel about the Disassembled and New Avengers? That's how I feel about the Bwah Ha era of the JLA. It destroyed them for me. That's why I feel the Morrison did a great thing with the original 7.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Dec 22, 2015 19:35:25 GMT -5
The most interesting and usefull one for me would be Batman.
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,871
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Post by shaxper on Dec 22, 2015 19:44:24 GMT -5
Just ordered a set of Legends on ebay. Man, those things were dollar bin fodder a few years back. Is Suicide Squad what's driving those prices up? I managed to get a set for $30 plus shipping, and even that felt high. But I guess it does contain some key first appearances for the Post-Crisis, and if I'm as interested in the strengths and utter disasters of the Post-Crisis reboot as I claim to be, I really should finally read this thing.
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Post by Action Ace on Dec 22, 2015 20:04:19 GMT -5
Yikes! Suicide Squad's debut IS pushing those prices up!
I need to check out the Ostrander 1980s series prices.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 22, 2015 20:04:22 GMT -5
\ I think you can skip Legends and go straight to Justice League #1. It is one of the best #1s of a comic series I've ever read. What happens is that Justice League Detroit is destroyed during the Legends crossover with a couple of members dying. A team (an AWESWOME one) comes together during the conclusion of Legends and Blue Beetle suggest the team pick up the now unused name of Justice League. Then Guy shows up at an empty JLA HQ at the start of Justice League #1 and we're off. Unless you're a HUGE John Byrne fan, I can't imagine any reason you'd want to read Legends. By the standards of giant editorailly driven intercompany crossover it's about average. Yes, that bad. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2015 20:06:49 GMT -5
\ I think you can skip Legends and go straight to Justice League #1. It is one of the best #1s of a comic series I've ever read. What happens is that Justice League Detroit is destroyed during the Legends crossover with a couple of members dying. A team (an AWESWOME one) comes together during the conclusion of Legends and Blue Beetle suggest the team pick up the now unused name of Justice League. Then Guy shows up at an empty JLA HQ at the start of Justice League #1 and we're off. Unless you're a HUGE John Byrne fan, I can't imagine any reason you'd want to read Legends. By the standards of giant editorailly driven intercompany crossover it's about average. Yes, that bad. For me, on the other hand, it is my favorite of any of the DC or Marvel events. So to each their own. -M |
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