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Post by Action Ace on Dec 22, 2015 20:06:53 GMT -5
Note that The Legends 30th Anniversary edition will be available in June for a suggested retail of $19.99.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 22, 2015 20:07:31 GMT -5
Note that The Legends 30th Anniversary edition will be available in June for a suggested retail of $19.99. I always prefer the floppies when I can have them, but thanks  |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 22, 2015 20:09:09 GMT -5
Unless you're a HUGE John Byrne fan, I can't imagine any reason you'd want to read Legends. By the standards of giant editorailly driven intercompany crossover it's about average. Yes, that bad. For me, on the other hand, it is my favorite of any of the DC or Marvel events. So to each their own. -M Well I will begin my Justice League run with a review of Legends, so this should be interesting  And, now that I've thrown down $30 for the series, you'd darn well better believe I'm starting this review thread. Expect it in early January! |
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Post by Action Ace on Dec 22, 2015 20:22:01 GMT -5
A suggestion for the JLI thread...
Do you have the trade of the first 7 issues where Keith Giffen's introduction discusses how this team lineup came to be?
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Post by shaxper on Dec 22, 2015 22:59:11 GMT -5
A suggestion for the JLI thread... Do you have the trade of the first 7 issues where Keith Giffen's introduction discusses how this team lineup came to be? Not anymore. I got rid of the trades years ago in favor of the floppies. But, if I recall correctly, he was pretty much given the rejects; he wasn't allowed to touch any of the core properties because their own offices were tightly controlling their directions and continuity. |
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Post by dupersuper on Dec 23, 2015 1:31:23 GMT -5
I already voted for Superman (naturally), but Justice League would be cool to.
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 23, 2015 2:45:51 GMT -5
I enjoyed Legends and thought that Byrne looked real good inked by Karl Kessel.
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Post by tingramretro on Dec 23, 2015 2:58:40 GMT -5
Public perception and sales, maybe, but I'm talking about actual numbers of books and characters; Batman may have sold more copies than Firestorm, Green Lantern, Outsiders and Infinity Inc combined, but he's still in the minority, there. I disagree with how you are envisioning a majority and a minority. I think public perception and actual copies of books sold count a whole lot more in that regard than percentage of titles that did one thing or another. Most people reading DC books did not see most of the titles continue without any kind of reboot because most DC readers were purchasing Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman and Justice League, but were only purchasing two or three of the other books you are describing. Ultimately, this entire debate seems pointless to me, but I think you are choosing some arbitrary conditions for declaring your point of view correct, here. I'm out of my element on this one (which is how we got to this debate in the first place) but when I was reading the Giffen Dematteis League stories a long while back, I don't recall any but the most vague of references to a previous team existing before them. It may have taken DC a while to pull off the reboot (just as it did with Batman, which really wasn't in Post-Crisis mode yet by the time of Legends either), but the Giffen/Dematteis League did seem like a pretty solid reset. Thanks for the clarification. I really do need to recollect that run. Never had them all, but I think I only own two issues these days. The Giffen/DeMatteis JLI genuinely was not a reboot-it carried on directly from the end of the previous run. Inititially, there were few references to that previous run as this was a new book, but it was made quite clear that this was simply the latest League, and that both Batman and Black Canary (and later several others, when they rejoined during Invasion) had been members of the previous one. Later in the run, they even revisited the Detroit League, with Despero (in the same revised form he'd gained during that run) arriving on Earth again and murdering Steel, who had been on life support somewhere since his apparent death at the hands of Professor Ivo at the end of the previous run. There was no reset for the League. |
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Post by tingramretro on Dec 23, 2015 3:01:50 GMT -5
A suggestion for the JLI thread... Do you have the trade of the first 7 issues where Keith Giffen's introduction discusses how this team lineup came to be? Not anymore. I got rid of the trades years ago in favor of the floppies. But, if I recall correctly, he was pretty much given the rejects; he wasn't allowed to touch any of the core properties because their own offices were tightly controlling their directions and continuity. Well, he had Batman... |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Dec 23, 2015 7:05:24 GMT -5
The Giffen/DeMatteis JLI genuinely was not a reboot-it carried on directly from the end of the previous run. Inititially, there were few references to that previous run as this was a new book, but it was made quite clear that this was simply the latest League, and that both Batman and Black Canary (and later several others, when they rejoined during Invasion) had been members of the previous one. Later in the run, they even revisited the Detroit League, with Despero (in the same revised form he'd gained during that run) arriving on Earth again and murdering Steel, who had been on life support somewhere since his apparent death at the hands of Professor Ivo at the end of the previous run. There was no reset for the League. Right, I do understand this, and perhaps I'm being confusing and even confusing myself on this, so let me try again: 1. The Giffen/Dematteis #1 is the closest thing to a reset the JL gets in the Post-Crisis and, from most outward appearances to the casual fan, it was a clear hard reboot point. Whereas the other titles you used as examples previously went pretty much unaltered in the wake of the Crisis, Justice League looked more like what was happening with Superman and Wonder Woman at the time. 2. In actuality, it's a soft (and messy) reboot, more like Batman at the time. Some elements from the past come back and are referenced, but others are retconned out. For example, Wonder Woman was never a member of The League now (at least until Zero Hour revises this, I think?). So while some (or all) of the JL Detroit continuity is eventually acknowledged, the past continuity the Detroit League itself acknowledged is largely out the window. I mean, I haven't reviewed the run yet, and it's been years since I read those first two trades, but this is my understanding of it as of now. |
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Post by shaxper on Dec 23, 2015 7:06:08 GMT -5
Not anymore. I got rid of the trades years ago in favor of the floppies. But, if I recall correctly, he was pretty much given the rejects; he wasn't allowed to touch any of the core properties because their own offices were tightly controlling their directions and continuity. Well, he had Batman... You're right. I never considered that before. Why was Batman allowed? |
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Post by Cei-U! on Dec 23, 2015 9:48:21 GMT -5
FYI, the first post-Crisis issue of Justice League of America was #246.
Cei-U!
I summon the footnote!
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Post by tingramretro on Dec 23, 2015 11:03:25 GMT -5
FYI, the first post-Crisis issue of Justice League of America was #246. Cei-U! I summon the footnote! Good point-the Detroit League were still around for almost a year and a half after Crisis ended. |
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Post by tingramretro on Dec 23, 2015 11:11:34 GMT -5
You're right. I never considered that before. Why was Batman allowed? Thinking about it, the "core properties" at the time would have been Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash and Green Lantern. Batman was in Giffen's League, and of the other four, Wonder Woman and Flash were in the process of being rebooted in one way or another so putting them in the League would just have complicated matters, while Byrne clearly didn't want Superman on any team, and Hal Jordan was leading a team of his own. Batman, though, was pretty much in the same place then as he had been pre-Crisis, despite the alterations to his history, so I guess since he was no longer with the Outsiders by then, there was no reason not to use him in the JLA. I don't think it was a case of anyone wanting to limit who Giffen and DeMatteis could use, it was simply that the others weren't available. |
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Post by shaxper on Dec 23, 2015 11:18:36 GMT -5
You're right. I never considered that before. Why was Batman allowed? Thinking about it, the "core properties" at the time would have been Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash and Green Lantern. Batman was in Giffen's League, and of the other four, Wonder Woman and Flash were in the process of being rebooted in one way or another so putting them in the League would just have complicated matters, while Byrne clearly didn't want Superman on any team, and Hal Jordan was leading a team of his own. Batman, though, was pretty much in the same place then as he had been pre-Crisis, despite the alterations to his history, so I guess since he was no longer with the Outsiders by then, there was no reason not to use him in the JLA. I don't think it was a case of anyone wanting to limit who Giffen and DeMatteis could use, it was simply that the others weren't available. That all makes perfect sense. And yes, there was clearly no Post-Crisis plan for Batman at all until well after Year One concluded. Even then, you could tell it was being improvised on the spot. |
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