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Post by BigPapaJoe on Mar 22, 2021 1:44:28 GMT -5
"Darkseid forgot" seems to go against character to me, I mean not only is he a literal god but even if we decide he's just more fallible here than he is in the comics you'd think a guy would remember the only place where he got beaten no matter how long ago it was. I've just started Part Five and have a few more observations: The editor here must have been sleeping a bit as there have now been two scenes that repeated dialogue. The first was the conversation with Desad, after gaining the first Motherbox Steppinwolf contacts Desad to update him on his status and ends with looking menacingly into the camera and saying that he's found captives and will rip the information from them, he then says the exact same thing when he finds the second and the animation is the same as well. Then in Part Four we get the Justice League assembling in the Batcave and Cyborg and the Flash quip about how cool it is, and then in Part Five after resurrecting Superman they return to the Batcave and once again The Flash and Cyborg quip about the Batcave as if they had never been there before. When you're stitching together a movie from multiple sources I suppose it's natural to happen but it just comes across as odd. Yeah at best it's really clumsy, and at worst it's just bad writing. The audience is essentially led to the conclusion that he forgot the Antilife equation was on Earth, because why else does he suddenly not know it's on the one planet that he got his ass whopped on? Why did everyone of his other goons that were there at the time with him forget? Those are some factors that would be seemingly hard to black out for Darkseid. And I guess he really did just forget, because then why wait all this time to come back to the one planet you know the anti-life equation is on? And why did it have to be "rediscovered" by one of your henchman? It's just weird how it all plays out. I suppose if they included a line from Darkseid himself saying how it was so long that he had not remembered the planet the antilife equation was on...but I would think that's what computers are for. They're technologically advanced. Just hard to buy since this is what he was looking for all this time. |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Mar 22, 2021 8:07:04 GMT -5
"Darkseid forgot" seems to go against character to me, I mean not only is he a literal god but even if we decide he's just more fallible here than he is in the comics you'd think a guy would remember the only place where he got beaten no matter how long ago it was. I've just started Part Five and have a few more observations: The editor here must have been sleeping a bit as there have now been two scenes that repeated dialogue. The first was the conversation with Desad, after gaining the first Motherbox Steppinwolf contacts Desad to update him on his status and ends with looking menacingly into the camera and saying that he's found captives and will rip the information from them, he then says the exact same thing when he finds the second and the animation is the same as well. Then in Part Four we get the Justice League assembling in the Batcave and Cyborg and the Flash quip about how cool it is, and then in Part Five after resurrecting Superman they return to the Batcave and once again The Flash and Cyborg quip about the Batcave as if they had never been there before. When you're stitching together a movie from multiple sources I suppose it's natural to happen but it just comes across as odd. Yeah at best it's really clumsy, and at worst it's just bad writing. The audience is essentially led to the conclusion that he forgot the Antilife equation was on Earth, because why else does he suddenly not know it's on the one planet that he got his ass whopped on? Why did everyone of his other goons that were there at the time with him forget? Those are some factors that would be seemingly hard to black out for Darkseid. And I guess he really did just forget, because then why wait all this time to come back to the one planet you know the anti-life equation is on? And why did it have to be "rediscovered" by one of your henchman? It's just weird how it all plays out. I suppose if they included a line from Darkseid himself saying how it was so long that he had not remembered the planet the antilife equation was on...but I would think that's what computers are for. They're technologically advanced. Just hard to buy since this is what he was looking for all this time. Yeah, it made zero sense. It would have been better if he either had never been to Earth and it was some other lackey who first tried to bring it to heel or if Darkseid had been there but he wasn't there long enough to know the anti-life equation was there...or just don't bring up the anti-life equation at all. |
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Post by impulse on Mar 22, 2021 9:40:04 GMT -5
Okay, I'm going to have to stay out of the thread now until I see it... and I need to expedite seeing it!
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Post by james on Mar 23, 2021 14:45:21 GMT -5
Ok. . no spoilers (at all - not even characters that have been given away as being in this). But having sat with it for a little bit: Zack Snyder's Justice League is *incredible* the Theatrical release was a C- film. This? this is a SOLID A (and if you're a comic fan, with some familiarity of the DC Universe? A+). I know some viewers have commented there's a little filler in here, but I didn't think any of it was filler. The ~4 hour run time just flies by. This is NOT anything even close to the theatrical release - perhaps 20% (or 18%) is footage we've seen. . the rest is all a brand new film. A new film that really fills in tons of character info/motivations/and triumphs. Clearly the two that benefit most are the Flash & Cyborg, but really all the characters benefit from more "stuff" that just wasn't in the original film. I really hope this does so well, that WB/DC greenlight the follow-ups, as I REALLY wanna see what comes next. I agree! I was listening to Comic Geek Speak and they were saying that you basically had the same movie. I thought WHAT?  Not even close. Tone was different and I enjoyed both Flash and Cyborg so much better in Snyder's cut. I actually laughed out loud with a couple of Flash's quips. Something I did not do with Whedon's cut. With that said I still do not like BATFLECK. That pole up his ass had a pole up its ass. I wasn't sure I liked that they all just agreed to resurrect Superman. I liked they discussed the ramifications of bringing him back. Still out on the Joker scene. So I give it a solid B. In regards to WB greenlighting another movie. How could Snyder ever follow up with to a 2 hr movie?? What I'd love to see is an Avengers type trilogy. Next up Big Barda/ Mister Miracle movie giving us the inner workings of Apocalypse. Followed up with a GL movie, then ending in with JL 2 |
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Post by tarkintino on Mar 23, 2021 16:39:50 GMT -5
The Snyder Cut of Justice League proves you do not hire Whedon (AKA guy who shovels out a lot of crap)to "finish" a film that is so intrinsically tied to its writer/director's vision across several films. The Snyder-JL was intended to be a longer film, so it had time to explore the then-new characters, and give them a purpose to take on the responsibility of fighting for a larger cause, instead of a film that's "Big Bad...bad. We fight with next to no personal motivation to do so". This was the natural progression of character and events set up in the earlier films, and points to a much larger film DC universe that was far more interesting in both the flashback and flash forward than the majority of DC productions, especially the often creatively bankrupt "Arrowverse" (Black Lightning being the one exception).
The running time never bothered me, as the film was so entertaining / fascinating that I was not aware of time, and I was going into it counting the minutes--or looking for problems, as some of these obsessive "geek" sites and YouTube channel forecasted they were going to do last year (based on what they were complaining about). Snyder was vindicated, while the endless numbers of fans who asked that the Snyder cut become a reality proved that some productions warrant this unprecedented move to set things right. You are unlikely to see that with the Star Wars sequels (which some fans claim the existence of / or studio interest in some sort of alternate cut) or any other major franchise. In this case, the legions of DCEU fans wanted this, which says much about the impact and appeal of Snyder's chapter of the DCEU, but it says more about people like Patty Jenkins, who wanted no association with Snyder's shepherding of the DC films, and she--with Geoff Johns--dropped the chaotic dumpster fire called Wonder Woman 1984 on the public. Their vision. Good going.
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Post by BigPapaJoe on Mar 24, 2021 1:16:46 GMT -5
To be fair to Whedon, Warner Bros told him the runtime had to be no more than 2 hours. They also wanted more light-hearted comedy like the Marvel films, which is why in the first cut there are cringe-worthy humor moments like the Flash on top of Wonder Woman, or Batman saying something was definitely broken after Superman knocked him down. And it just didn't click. But yeah, Whedon definitely has his share of changes that were for the worse, but Warner Bros. didn't help matters by shackling him. That's what I heard anyway.
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Post by MWGallaher on Mar 30, 2021 7:29:23 GMT -5
This was one of the subtlest acknowledgments in the film, one that only true and attentive students of classic comic book art would notice, the establishing shot of The Flash's Central City:  |
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Post by impulse on May 13, 2021 9:50:37 GMT -5
Finally got around to this one. I made it about halfway through, and so far, it is much better than the theatrical version. Or at least, I am enjoying it more, but it's far from perfect.
The use of on-the-nose music to bludgeon in a point is so cringingly heavy-handed that I'm vicariously embarrassed for the characters. It's supposed to be a serious moment, but I rolled my eyes and cringed while Lois stood there holding her cliche black umbrella while looking sad off into the distance while a sad song played very loudly. Later in the movie it shows her lounging in an incredibly staged pose in her apartment staring sadly off into the distance and I laughed.
When Wonder Woman debuted and those terrorists came in it was so cliche and cheesy. Lots of moments like that in the movie, where it is trying so hard to be serious but comes off so cliche and cringey and embarrassing. That said, they did a MUCH better job incorporating her theme here and showing her abilities.
But man, it's a comic book movie, and you expect a certain amount of cheesiness. Despite stuff like this, I am enjoying it. It's not nearly as bleak and dreary as I had feared based on literally everything else I've seen by Snyder and the promo materials. It has pacing issues and some stuff doesn't really make a lot of sense or work. It felt like Aquaman had two intros that were redundant and somewhat clash with each other, for example. I liked the stuff with the Amazon overall, but it was a bit overly long at points. Also odd how they kept deviating from "we have no fear!!!" one moment to being openly terrified the next. I will say it is more internally and tonally consistent than the theatrical cut.
I hesitate to even call that a theatrical cut. It's effectively a different movie.
So far, so good despite a little cringe and need some some editing. I hope to finish the second half soon.
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Post by thwhtguardian on May 15, 2021 7:40:32 GMT -5
The Snyder Cut of Justice League proves you do not hire Whedon (AKA guy who shovels out a lot of crap)to "finish" a film that is so intrinsically tied to its writer/director's vision across several films. The Snyder-JL was intended to be a longer film, so it had time to explore the then-new characters, and give them a purpose to take on the responsibility of fighting for a larger cause, instead of a film that's "Big Bad...bad. We fight with next to no personal motivation to do so". This was the natural progression of character and events set up in the earlier films, and points to a much larger film DC universe that was far more interesting in both the flashback and flash forward than the majority of DC productions, especially the often creatively bankrupt "Arrowverse" ( Black Lightning being the one exception). The running time never bothered me, as the film was so entertaining / fascinating that I was not aware of time, and I was going into it counting the minutes--or looking for problems, as some of these obsessive "geek" sites and YouTube channel forecasted they were going to do last year (based on what they were complaining about). Snyder was vindicated, while the endless numbers of fans who asked that the Snyder cut become a reality proved that some productions warrant this unprecedented move to set things right. You are unlikely to see that with the Star Wars sequels (which some fans claim the existence of / or studio interest in some sort of alternate cut) or any other major franchise. In this case, the legions of DCEU fans wanted this, which says much about the impact and appeal of Snyder's chapter of the DCEU, but it says more about people like Patty Jenkins, who wanted no association with Snyder's shepherding of the DC films, and she--with Geoff Johns--dropped the chaotic dumpster fire called Wonder Woman 1984 on the public. Their vision. Good going. I think saying "Legions of fans" wanted this is over stating things a fair bit, especially as the end result was streamed fewer times than Wonder Woman 88 and Kong Vs Godzilla...and was nearly beat out by Tom and Jerry. |
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2021 12:40:14 GMT -5
^ that's not accurate.
factor in the B&W version too.
it was streamed way more than WW.
(not sure what the KvG numbers were, but it passed WW before the B&W version option was added)
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2021 16:04:53 GMT -5
Not every fan in the legion has HBO Max available to them.
There are also factors like the Snyder Cut being an 4 hour R-Rated film. The other films are PG-13 or PG in the case of Tom and Jerry. Perhaps people were off-put by the 4:3 aspect ratio. Also factor in that the average person may not realize the Snyder Cut is something different than the 2017 Joss-tice League.
I'm also sure Wonder Woman 1984 enjoyed the bump of being released on Christmas Day, and the subsequent week leading up to New Years. I've also seen that WW84's numbers started to fall off after that. Whereas the Snyder Cut numbers are on the rise.
I also wouldn't bring Tom and Jerry into the equation at all. I myself had it play on my HBO Max 3 to 4 times in the month it was on there, simply because my niece kept requesting to watch it.
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Post by impulse on May 15, 2021 16:19:39 GMT -5
I think for multiple reasons, trying to evaluate movies' success by the traditional records after a year+ of COVID isn't really as accurate as normal years, particular something as unique as an alternate version of a 5 year old movie that was released directly to a premium streaming service.
I also didn't realize it was an R-rated movie. That's kind of surprising to me. They sure didn't take advantage of that. A few more well-placed F-bombs could have been used to comedic or dramatic effect.
I did finish the movie. I enjoyed it quite a lot more than the theatrical cut, but it was definitely not perfect. The pacing got weird, and it could use some trimming, but I liked it. I honestly would have liked more about Superman coming back. That had the biggest potential for heavy-hitting emotional payoff and they just kind of sprinted through it. I think there's an even better 3-ish hour movie in there with some editing and maybe a few extended scenes.
I was pleasantly surprised at how super grimdark depressing bleak it was NOT, and I think Snyder left the DCEU in a more interesting place than Whedon did, even though that won't mean much probably. I am pleased to have had the chance to see an alternate version of the movie. That's a pretty cool and unique thing.
Also, it is not necessary to go out of your way to look for problems. It had plenty, mostly heavy-handed and clumsy cliche moments and a need for more editing, but despite all that it was a fun movie.
I was not expecting much here, and it is now my preferred version of the flick.
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Post by thwhtguardian on May 16, 2021 7:06:58 GMT -5
^ that's not accurate. factor in the B&W version too. it was streamed way more than WW. (not sure what the KvG numbers were, but it passed WW before the B&W version option was added) WW and Kong out performed it according to every source out there, that's a flat fact. And the black and white version was hardly streamed at all. I'm not equating this to anything related to quality mind you, I'm just saying that it wasn't some massive success powered by legions of fans. WB was hoping this was the next Stranger Things or Mandalorian and that the Snyder cut would likewise fully capture the pop culture zeitgeist and put HBO Max on the map like Netflix and Disney +. They even planned a limited theatrical release for the summer when they hoped covid theater reluctance would have passed....but the popularity didn't meet expectations so the theatrical release has been called off. This isn't to say I think releasing the Snyder cut was a bad idea, I'm glad we got to see his original vision even if I ultimately thought it was only slightly less flawed than the theatrical cut but whether you liked it or not it is undeniable that it was not the huge success it was hoped to be for HBO Max. |
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Post by codystarbuck on May 16, 2021 19:36:50 GMT -5
The Honest Trailer assessment....
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Post by impulse on May 17, 2021 8:41:31 GMT -5
This guy always cracks me up, and he is spot-on most of the time. It's also usually respectful and not malicious, and that seems to be the case. He also summarized the movie pretty well.
"It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but it's going to sound cool."
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Not even close. Tone was different and I enjoyed both Flash and Cyborg so much better in Snyder's cut. I actually laughed out loud with a couple of Flash's quips. Something I did not do with Whedon's cut. With that said I still do not like BATFLECK. That pole up his ass had a pole up its ass. I wasn't sure I liked that they all just agreed to resurrect Superman. I liked they discussed the ramifications of bringing him back. Still out on the Joker scene. So I give it a solid B. In regards to WB greenlighting another movie. How could Snyder ever follow up with to a 2 hr movie?? What I'd love to see is an Avengers type trilogy. Next up Big Barda/ Mister Miracle movie giving us the inner workings of Apocalypse. Followed up with a GL movie, then ending in with JL 2
