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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 8, 2023 23:19:28 GMT -5
The Riddler had returned in the 1960s before the TV show. When the writers grabbed a few issues of the comic book to get ideas for how to write the show, one of the most recent issues was the 1960s return of the Riddler. But it is true that the Riddler’s predominance in the show is one of the reasons he became a major Batman villain.
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 8, 2023 23:22:56 GMT -5
About 10 years ago, I purchased a batch of very low-grade issues of Lois Lane from the early 1970s, and most of them had the Rose and Thorn back-up feature. Among them was the first part of the storyline where the 100 had hired Poison Ivy to come to Metropolis to kill the Thorn. I remember being very surprised when I looked it up online to find out that it was her third appearance. And then I did a little more digging and discovered that the first comic book where I ever saw her, Batman #291, was only her ninth appearance!
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 8, 2023 23:32:14 GMT -5
Should also mention the Poison Ivy story in Secret Origins - which, again, because it didn’t have Batman in it. Written by some British guy named Neil. I think that was where it was established that her gimmick wasn’t just plants but ecology. Still the tone of her appearance there was more Vertigo/horror and I suspect you guys are right that BTAS established her modern attitude and gave her a sense of humor.
Follow-up question: When did she turn green? I’m thinking it was that P. Craig Russel story.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 8, 2023 23:52:34 GMT -5
So in this thread name characters who are associated with a specific hero but probably shouldn’t be. I've always considered the Rhino a Spider-Man villain first and foremost because of the classic ASM #41-43 and his appearances in the 60's cartoon, but he went on to appear in the Hulk more often (and even faced him in the Defenders). That’s a good one. Always liked the Rhino more as a Spider-man enemy because the Hulk had plenty of strong, dumb guys to fight but Marvel disagreed. Spidey-wise, the Sandman was a member of the Frightful Four who sometimes fought the Hulk for a good long time, and Stan etc. tried to farm Electro out as a Daredevil villain for a hot sec. The OTHER thing I really wanted to mention in this thread was that Electro was one of the first Spidey villains but didn’t make a second appearance (in the main title) till Amazing Spider-Man 82. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 9, 2023 0:28:08 GMT -5
By the time the Sandman fought the entire Fantastic Four as a member of the Frightful Four, he had fought the Human Torch twice, first in his second appearance Strange Tales #115 (just three months after his debut in Spider-Man #4), and then in Spider-Man #19 where he teamed up with the Enforcers to fight both Spidey and the Torch.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 9, 2023 2:11:30 GMT -5
About 10 years ago, I purchased a batch of very low-grade issues of Lois Lane from the early 1970s, and most of them had the Rose and Thorn back-up feature. Among them was the first part of the storyline where the 100 had hired Poison Ivy to come to Metropolis to kill the Thorn. I remember being very surprised when I looked it up online to find out that it was her third appearance. And then I did a little more digging and discovered that the first comic book where I ever saw her, Batman #291, was only her ninth appearance! And only third appearance in a Batman title. I haven’t read the story but know OF it…. It’s a 4 parter where different villains talk about how they killed Batman. I know she’s not a major character but does she interact with Batman at all? There was a Gene Colan Batman vs Poison Ivy story in the early 80s. Is that the third time she fought Batman not as part of a team? My thesis is sound! I haven’t read the Thorn story either, but that pairing makes good thematic sense. Was P I still in pure femme fatale mode? |
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Post by foxley on Dec 9, 2023 2:15:26 GMT -5
Should also mention the Poison Ivy story in Secret Origins - which, again, because it didn’t have Batman in it. Written by some British guy named Neil. I think that was where it was established that her gimmick wasn’t just plants but ecology. Still the tone of her appearance there was more Vertigo/horror and I suspect you guys are right that BTAS established her modern attitude and gave her a sense of humor. Follow-up question: When did she turn green? I’m thinking it was that P. Craig Russel story. As far as I can tell, yes. Ivy's appearance immediately prior to that was the Batman/Green Arrow: The Poison Tomorrow (which is a pretty good story) and she is definitely Caucasian in that. I think "Hothouse"was the first story to give her green skin, and then it was cemented by her appearance in The Long Halloween, because in her appearance in Knightfall, which happened the year after "Hothouse", she was Caucasian again. It was after The Long Halloween that she started being consistently portrayed with green skin. |
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Post by zaku on Dec 9, 2023 3:46:04 GMT -5
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Post by zaku on Dec 9, 2023 4:11:31 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2023 4:22:16 GMT -5
The OTHER thing I really wanted to mention in this thread was that Electro was one of the first Spidey villains but didn’t make a second appearance (in the main title) till Amazing Spider-Man 82. Electro came to mind for me as well! My all-time favorite Spider-Man villain, but yeah, it always seemed like an oddly long gap to issue #82, though technically Annual #1 with the Sinister Six should count as well I think. And like the Rhino, he did appear in the 60's cartoon. But yes, at least back in the day, Daredevil probably had a fair claim on Electro as well who would return in a lead role in the first Daredevil annual and then again in the main title in the early 70's. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,201 
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Post by Confessor on Dec 9, 2023 4:42:40 GMT -5
It's funny, but it's probably just because I had Batman #339 as a kid, as well as reprints of Batman #291-294 in the British Batman Pocket Book #1, that I regarded Poison Ivy as a major Batman villain even back then. But that really wasn't the case, based on that list of appearances. I guess individual exposure to a particular character can give an inaccurate perception of what a major player they are. |
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Post by zaku on Dec 9, 2023 4:56:51 GMT -5
It's funny, but it's probably just because I had Batman #339 as a kid, as well as reprints of Batman #291-294 in the British Batman Pocket Book #1, that I regarded Poison Ivy as a major Batman villain even back then. But that really wasn't the case, based on that list of appearances. I guess individual exposure to a particular character can give an inaccurate perception of what a major player they are. It's a little bit like the pre-Crisis Bizarro. He is such an iconic character that I was surprised of such few relative appearances he had. He appeared a lot in the early Silver Age and then (I think) the authors didn't really know what to do with him. www.mikesamazingworld.com/main/features/character.php?page=chronology&characterid=467&universe=Earth-1 |
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Post by jester on Dec 9, 2023 8:21:18 GMT -5
Isn't she more associated with Batman because of the Batman tv show from the 60s? I think I once read that they wanted more female villains and she was specifically created to answer that call. Although she never actually made it onto the show, Ivy was considered. One of the Catwoman episodes featured a villain sidekick played by Lesley Gore who was originally Ivy in script drafts before being made into a different character. She was largely cemented as a key Batman villain post-Crisis. A lot of classic villains really didn't appear that much in their associated character's books, and adaptations in animation and film are what boosted their profiles. Mr. Freeze only had a handful of pre-Crisis appearances. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2023 8:52:13 GMT -5
Riddle me this CCF friends!
What do the aforementioned Riddler, Poison Ivy, Mister Freeze, and even Bizarro all have in common?
Answer: sparing to no appearances in the late 60's through mid 70's, only to start appearing again in the late 70's.
I tend to think of that stretch of time as more an anomaly, and if you discount it, their continuities look a bit more normal.
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Post by MDG on Dec 9, 2023 8:54:57 GMT -5
Huh. The timeline checks out and the first Poison Ivy story did introduce four female villains. Three other female villains "appeared" in the story, but only as paintings. I don't think those characters ever appeared in a story.  |
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