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Post by zaku on Dec 10, 2023 10:17:40 GMT -5
It feels like PI never really came alive until she was paired with Harley Quinn and made a lesbian. She's depicted as bi or pan. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 10, 2023 10:18:20 GMT -5
It feels like PI never really came alive until she was paired with Harley Quinn and made a lesbian. She's depicted as bi or pan. I stand corrected. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2023 10:21:57 GMT -5
For those of us who have been reading Batman since 1975, that’s not even remotely accurate. I mean to the general public. Comic geeks don't count. Actually I'd say it's mostly comic geeks who wanted that. Ivy was a big deal well before that. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 10, 2023 10:24:02 GMT -5
I mean to the general public. Comic geeks don't count. Actually I'd say it's mostly comic geeks who wanted that. Ivy was a big deal well before that. We have to agree to disagree. The only non comics people that even had any interaction with her was in that Terrible Batman and Robin movie that had Uma Thurman as PI. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2023 10:25:10 GMT -5
Actually I'd say it's mostly comic geeks who wanted that. Ivy was a big deal well before that. We have to agree to disagree. The only non comics people that even had any interaction with her was in that Terrible Batman and Robin movie that had Uma Thurman as PI. You missed the 90's then. Ivy was everywhere in the cartoon, action figures, etc. well before that movie. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Dec 10, 2023 10:26:49 GMT -5
We have to agree to disagree. The only non comics people that even had any interaction with her was in that Terrible Batman and Robin movie that had Uma Thurman as PI. You missed the 90's then. Ivy was everywhere in the cartoon, action figures, etc. well before that movie. The movie was a 1997 release and action figures, cartoons are a geeks domain, not the general public. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2023 10:31:46 GMT -5
You missed the 90's then. Ivy was everywhere in the cartoon, action figures, etc. well before that movie. The movie was a 1997 release and action figures, cartoons are a geeks domain, not the general public. Dude... Cartoons ARE the general public! There are a bazillion more "casual" fans of superhero culture from cartoons than actual comic book readers. Didn't you watch cartoons with a bowl of sugary cereal on Saturday mornings? And the action figures came from the cartoon well before the live action movie. |
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Post by zaku on Dec 10, 2023 10:33:39 GMT -5
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Post by chadwilliam on Dec 10, 2023 11:38:03 GMT -5
Thing is, these sporadic appearances weren't even exclusive to Poison Ivy.
Mr. Freeze debuted in 1959, made his second appearance in 1968, his third in 1977 (also cameoing in the "Where Were You the Night Batman was Killed?" four-parter), and was the feature villain for a couple more stories prior to Crisis while also taking up space in crowd scenes in anniversary issues.
After showing up in 1968's Batman #201, The Penguin disappears for six years before returning in Batman #257, reappears a couple of years later in a Justice League story, and finally becomes a recurring baddie once more in 1977.
Of course, when you have as many enemies as Batman, you could theoretically cycle through a popular/semi-popular foe every few months and still not manage to squeeze everybody in, but it almost seems as if there were a moratorium in place for costumed/visually outlandish looking villains for the first half of the 1970's - a particularly noticeable absence in light of the fact that many of these villains had recently returned from limbo when they were put into storage once again.
The Scarecrow appeared twice during the early 40's and didn't reappear for more than 25 years. He makes three appearances between his 1967 return and 1969 and then disappears until 1974 (where he returns in a JLA story).
The Riddler appeared twice during the late 40's and didn't reappear until 19 years later. He shows up quite a bit during the Silver Age, but vanishes in 1968 and re-emerges in 1975.
Even The Joker - the one villain who never took time off as things shifted from the Golden Age to Silver - departed for close to four years between 1969 and 1973's "Five Way Revenge!"
I suppose the main titles wanted to get away from what they considered to be any reminders of the Adam West TV series - ie. costumed super-villains - and decreed that such characters were no longer welcome. I guess we got Ra's Al Ghul out of the deal and perhaps even Two-Face was considered an exception to this ban since his "costume" was only a scarred face, but you'd think that after having gotten rid of so many great villains for so long, DC wouldn't repeat that error once again so quickly. It almost seems as if the Bat-titles only renewed their interest in some of these characters because other titles began to feature them - like a toy they had gotten tired of but wanted back when they saw how much fun their kid brother was having in playing with them.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 11, 2023 1:38:08 GMT -5
It feels like PI never really came alive until she was paired with Harley Quinn and made a lesbian. IIRC that was heavily implied in the ‘90s cartoon. |
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Post by foxley on Dec 11, 2023 2:13:17 GMT -5
It feels like PI never really came alive until she was paired with Harley Quinn and made a lesbian. IIRC that was heavily implied in the ‘90s cartoon. It is, particularly in "Harley And Ivy" where Harley gets fed-up with Mr. J's treatment of her and runs off and teams up with Ivy. There is a lot of implied attraction between them (subtle enough that it would fly over the heads of most kids), and a parental bonus innuendo when Joker catches up with them and says "My, haven't you two been the busy little beavers", as only Mark Hamill could. This line apparently cut a little too close to the bone and was changed to "busy little bees" in later airings.
And BTAS was definitely not 'just for geeks'. You could get a BTAS Poison Ivy toy with a McDonald's Happy Meal at one point. Or do only geeks eat at McDonald's?
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Post by foxley on Dec 11, 2023 2:23:38 GMT -5
Thing is, these sporadic appearances weren't even exclusive to Poison Ivy. Mr. Freeze debuted in 1959, made his second appearance in 1968, his third in 1977 (also cameoing in the "Where Were You the Night Batman was Killed?" four-parter), and was the feature villain for a couple more stories prior to Crisis while also taking up space in crowd scenes in anniversary issues. After showing up in 1968's Batman #201, The Penguin disappears for six years before returning in Batman #257, reappears a couple of years later in a Justice League story, and finally becomes a recurring baddie once more in 1977. Of course, when you have as many enemies as Batman, you could theoretically cycle through a popular/semi-popular foe every few months and still not manage to squeeze everybody in, but it almost seems as if there were a moratorium in place for costumed/visually outlandish looking villains for the first half of the 1970's - a particularly noticeable absence in light of the fact that many of these villains had recently returned from limbo when they were put into storage once again. The Scarecrow appeared twice during the early 40's and didn't reappear for more than 25 years. He makes three appearances between his 1967 return and 1969 and then disappears until 1974 (where he returns in a JLA story). The Riddler appeared twice during the late 40's and didn't reappear until 19 years later. He shows up quite a bit during the Silver Age, but vanishes in 1968 and re-emerges in 1975. Even The Joker - the one villain who never took time off as things shifted from the Golden Age to Silver - departed for close to four years between 1969 and 1973's " Five Way Revenge!" I suppose the main titles wanted to get away from what they considered to be any reminders of the Adam West TV series - ie. costumed super-villains - and decreed that such characters were no longer welcome. I guess we got Ra's Al Ghul out of the deal and perhaps even Two-Face was considered an exception to this ban since his "costume" was only a scarred face, but you'd think that after having gotten rid of so many great villains for so long, DC wouldn't repeat that error once again so quickly. It almost seems as if the Bat-titles only renewed their interest in some of these characters because other titles began to feature them - like a toy they had gotten tired of but wanted back when they saw how much fun their kid brother was having in playing with them. Sometimes there is a deliberate editorial decision to put a pause on appearances of certain characters, to avoid overexposure. For example, after "A Death in the Family", they put a moratorium further Joker appearances and he didn't reappear in the Bat-books until Batman #450 two years later.
(Now if only Marvel would learn to do that with Wolverine/Punisher/Deadpool/whatever the current fanboy flavour of the month is.)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 7:44:07 GMT -5
IIRC that was heavily implied in the ‘90s cartoon. It is, particularly in "Harley And Ivy" where Harley gets fed-up with Mr. J's treatment of her and runs off and teams up with Ivy. There is a lot of implied attraction between them (subtle enough that it would fly over the heads of most kids), and a parental bonus innuendo when Joker catches up with them and says "My, haven't you two been the busy little beavers", as only Mark Hamill could. This line apparently cut a little too close to the bone and was changed to "busy little bees" in later airings. EDIT: I'm deleting my original comments here because someone thought they were intended to imply something about Harley and Ivy's relationship in a less favorable light, but for the record that was certainly NOT what I was talking about. |
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Post by Prince Hal on Dec 11, 2023 13:31:05 GMT -5
So this is a gallery belonging to...  How tough is it to notice a misplaced apostrophe? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2023 13:58:46 GMT -5
It's funny, but it's probably just because I had Batman #339 as a kid, as well as reprints of Batman #291-294 in the British Batman Pocket Book #1, that I regarded Poison Ivy as a major Batman villain even back then. But that really wasn't the case, based on that list of appearances. I guess individual exposure to a particular character can give an inaccurate perception of what a major player they are.
Funny you should mention that pocketbook, I also had it has a small girl but those damn Egmont books weren't kid-friendly, they fell apart like a pack of cards after moderate handling. I did manage to get a new one very recently along with several others I'll be adding to the purchases thread soon, just have to unpack them.
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